Cosmism

00:00:00:15 – 00:00:36:15
Cameron
Hello everyone. So welcome to this new podcast where we are diving into the world of Cosmism catastrophe ism. All of that. It’s a big new thing to to bite off. And I find that as I was introduced to it, that it is pretty over my head at that points. And so Wendy and I decided that we wanted to kind of bring our heads and and thoughts together to help explain it to others in a more digestible and palatable way.

00:00:36:22 – 00:01:03:09
Cameron
So first off, I would love to just kind of both of us express why we think that this is a worthwhile study. Is it Christ centered and how do we navigate this new type of of thinking about the ages of the Earth and and what is in our future? So so, Wendy, how would you approach that question? Why is this an important study?

00:01:05:06 – 00:01:36:23
Wendy
Well, all truth is a part of the gospel. President Nelson was talking about how we should seek for truth wherever wherever it is. And I, I love finding things that testify of Christ and help us to understand his characteristics and attributes. Right. We have the scriptures that that teach us of those things that all things will will draw sun, you know, nature and out in nature.

00:01:36:23 – 00:02:11:22
Wendy
We feel close to him when we’re even in school and understanding laws of physics or something or just like or the body and you’re like, Wow, this is just amazing how heavenly fathers set up our worlds, you know, help us to be to be creators with him even. And so some, some things are big because they they seem big like this because they debunk so many of our are our notions of what we’ve what we’ve grown up with.

00:02:12:03 – 00:02:43:23
Wendy
And so it can be a little disorienting at times, but it’s awesome to to see how God has worked, you know, past, present and future. And there’s actually a scripture and I’ll just finish this question with this. But in the DNC in 93, verse 24, and this is at the end of chapter two of the book that we’re discussing, but he ends with this scripture and it says, and truth is knowledge of things as they are and as they were and as they are to come.

00:02:43:23 – 00:03:04:02
Wendy
And so we want to understand prophecy and we want to understand all. And if we have this, the Spirit of Christ and the spirit of prophecy, then we then it will testify of Him. And so it can help us to become like him and know him without.

00:03:04:02 – 00:03:35:03
Cameron
Yeah, I was introduced to Cosmism in a very roundabout way. I was just beginning to start studying. Isaiah seriously for the first time ever in my life and a good acquaintance of mine came in and was like, Well, Isaiah is actually all about all of this cosmism stuff. And it overwhelmed me so much right off the bat. So I put it on the shelf and I hadn’t really picked it up until about a month ago.

00:03:35:03 – 00:03:44:07
Cameron
But now, with a good background in Isaiah and I’m a good background of a year.

00:03:44:07 – 00:03:45:16
Wendy
But way to stay humble.

00:03:46:16 – 00:04:18:00
Cameron
Some footprints in that direction. I guess I picked it back up and realized that oh man, this really is testifying of Christ and helping, like you said, unpack some different traditions or notions that I had, I don’t know, picked up along the way in my journey of, of life. And and I just realized how important this was and that the Lord was leading me to to study some of these things.

00:04:18:11 – 00:04:32:02
Cameron
And it’s kind of like once you see it, you can’t unsee it. Yeah. When I’m going through scripture, I’m like, Everything’s here. How else would you describe that other than in this type of a context? And so.

00:04:32:02 – 00:04:34:19
Wendy
You know, it’s like a veil is drawn back, isn’t it?

00:04:34:23 – 00:04:35:20
Cameron
Yeah, exactly.

00:04:35:20 – 00:04:42:07
Wendy
And in some ways it’s like, whoa. Like I never saw that before. And yeah, it’s exciting.

00:04:42:15 – 00:05:11:00
Cameron
Mm hmm. Yeah. And it helps answer so many questions that I’ve had along the way. And anyway. Yeah, it just like you said, it’s just like there’s this grand veil that’s just kind of lifted off. I’m sure there’s way more layers that I have yet to have to work through, but but this one at this time has really opened my eyes a lot to especially going through scripture, going through the temple, just normal meetings, even as people are reading certain scriptures.

00:05:11:00 – 00:05:32:17
Cameron
And I’m like, Oh, I understand that in a lot deeper context now. And anyway, so I, I’m omitting my very novice approach to this. I have a pretty good month under my belt, I would consider. So how have you head with this? Do you consider yourself an expert in this field or or where are you approaching it from?

00:05:34:08 – 00:05:58:05
Wendy
Really, just a couple of years. I mean, I was we went during COVID is when I had the time to really delve into it. But the Lord drew me in this direction in 2018, so about four years ago, and I, I was trying to understand it. I was he told me to go to a Facebook page like somebody had had posted on a blog about something.

00:05:58:05 – 00:06:19:22
Wendy
And and I felt the spirit and the words like, go check that out. So I joined and I tried to understand I couldn’t. So I let it go for about a year. And then I’m like, and then he’s like, No, you need to go back and you need to look at that like, really look at it. And I was kind of under condemnation all about like so I tried and then I finally said, okay, you guys got to help me out because this, this like you’re talking in code and I have no idea.

00:06:21:02 – 00:06:44:13
Wendy
And they’re like, okay, as a, as a beginner, you need to go and do this, this, you know, go and take his classes, go watch these videos. So I went and watched symbols of an alien sky. And then I took in thunderbolts of the gods videos on Thunderbolts YouTube channel and then took Anthony’s classes. So and it was a big investment.

00:06:44:13 – 00:06:59:23
Wendy
But I knew that I the Lord told me to do it. I had several witnesses and then things just started to unfold and and then I kind of I’d have to put things on the shelf a little bit and pray about it and think about it and read the scriptures and say, Is this here or is it here?

00:06:59:23 – 00:07:12:00
Wendy
And then I kept seeing evidences so that I knew that there was some there was truth to it, but I’m still trying to weed out the philosophies of it. But there’s definitely core truths that are important to understand.

00:07:13:17 – 00:07:38:16
Cameron
Yeah, for sure. And so for anyone listening, all of these different references of books and podcasts and classes and things, we will have all of those on our resource page on learning Zion dot com slash cosmism and that way you don’t have to fiercely take notes and rewind and try to catch the name of the things that we’re dropping.

00:07:38:16 – 00:08:16:05
Cameron
But as we do will, we’ll have that resource page updated. It’ll be ever growing as we we find new things and are introducing them in this podcast. So with this podcast site, we are first taking a dove into Anthony Larson, an elder scholar who is taking a man by the name of Emmanuel Volokhonsky. He’s taking his works and and applying it into a paradigm where a context of a latter day saint.

00:08:16:15 – 00:08:23:19
Cameron
And so we he wrote a trilogy back in the day. I don’t even know what year this was, but.

00:08:24:21 – 00:08:27:12
Wendy
Says 1981 on the title page.

00:08:28:03 – 00:08:28:17
Cameron
All right.

00:08:28:18 – 00:08:30:14
Wendy
Yeah, 40 years. Well.

00:08:31:13 – 00:09:03:12
Cameron
It’s been a while. Just to a novice, but he wrote a trilogy. It was originally just that 1/1 book called And The Moon Shall Turn to Blood. And then it was pretty popular and got some traction. And so he wrote to follow up books and made a trilogy out of it. And so what we’re doing is going through the very first one, kind of chapter by chapter and breaking it down and and some of the things that we’ve learned in our study and, and questions that we still have, etc..

00:09:03:24 – 00:09:32:22
Cameron
So what we’re wanting to do with this one today is kind of walk through the, the first two chapters and we might break this down into two different podcasts. But one thing that I love about Anthony Larson’s chapters are they’re only like two, maybe three pages long. They’re they’re very bite size, but there’s so much information that you need to to take those and then ponder them after after each one.

00:09:33:09 – 00:10:11:22
Cameron
So chapter one is a is the only fictional part of his whole book, but he first goes into a brief, hypothetical opening scene of the last days when a great catastrophic event has happened and the Earth is experiencing the effects of it. So a also with this podcast, we are expecting you two to read along with us. It’s kind of like a book club of sorts, and so I highly recommend going out and purchasing his books.

00:10:11:22 – 00:10:40:06
Cameron
You can find them very cheap on thrifty books or at DIY or various different places, but one thing to note with the first book in the series called And The Moon Shall Turn to Blood, there is a non-denial, non-denominational version and an LDS version, and so the LDS version is a hardback copy, and the nondenominational version is a paperback copy.

00:10:41:11 – 00:11:14:01
Cameron
And so it kind of gets confusing because the next two in the series are both from an LDS perspective, and they are paper back as well. So anyway, the first one, if you’re wanting to to read it from a LDS perspective, is hardback and the follow into our paperback. So with that disclaimer out of the way, if you’re wanting to follow along, I highly recommend reading through this hypothetical or fictional story that may not all be all that fictional.

00:11:14:19 – 00:11:36:07
Cameron
So what was your take on that first chapter, Wendy, as you were reading it and kind of experiencing his take on the last days, is it congruent with the things that you’ve studied about cataclysmic events and and what could possibly be in our future at some point?

00:11:38:01 – 00:11:57:03
Wendy
Yeah, kind of. Is it describe things in a way that you’d never hear in any other book except maybe science fiction or something, right? Because you have the dust coming down. It’s like this dusting over the earth and nobody knows what it is. And that ash in the air is like, Where’s the volcanoes? And it’s like, it’s not from a volcano.

00:11:57:03 – 00:12:33:18
Wendy
It’s, you know, it’s contaminating everything. So anyway, so it’s an even being read. It just kind of a throwback to like the Book of Mormon, the cast catastrophes there, you know, so everything like this, this sickness in the air or the exodus where, you know, the the water was turned turned red, you know, that’s so so it really it really aligns, though, with what would happen with the comets coming very close to the earth.

00:12:33:18 – 00:13:03:10
Wendy
And we’re we’re we’re getting some of that fall out, basically. And then a lot of earthquakes and volcanic, other upheavals because of the interaction with that comet is very true to form to what has happened in the past. It’s because of that that interaction between the two planetary bodies, just like there’s interaction between anything that’s that’s a matter that has electrical, you know, energy, the energy between them is going to flow, basically.

00:13:03:19 – 00:13:18:21
Wendy
So we don’t experience that right now. So it’s it’s more science fiction if you’re not seeing it. So reading at the very first, you’re like, this sounds like science fiction, but once you get into it, you kind of see, okay, now I can see how that could happen.

00:13:19:07 – 00:13:56:08
Cameron
You know? Yeah. So how does one unpack their traditions or notions or unbelief, whatever you want to call it, about catastrophes versus gradualism? Because those are kind of those are weren’t terms that I was familiar with. But we have very much in our current scientific curriculum, I would say, especially on lower levels, adopted gradualism as the end all be off and how much we look at the skies and say, oh, things have never changed.

00:13:56:08 – 00:14:24:03
Cameron
And if they have, it’s been very slow in my Newton and gradual. So how can we begin unpacking that and and possibly accepting some of these more radical and catastrophic events that could possibly be the actual past and the near future? How would you respond to add to that kind of a change or perish?

00:14:24:14 – 00:14:53:12
Wendy
That’s a good question. Yeah, I think it’s opening your eyes to what’s there that’s just been ignored or swept under the rug because we don’t understand it. But like you said, it’s it’s our it’s it’s a curriculum. And I was I don’t know how to describe this, but called to be a teacher this year by the Lord. And I didn’t want to do it because I don’t want to teach things in that curriculum that way that they want me to teach them, especially earth science.

00:14:53:12 – 00:15:21:10
Wendy
So I was teaching summer science, but I kind of got it. Didn’t have to teach anyway some of the the major processes of titanic shift and whatnot and what causes those. But as I was teaching, weathering and erosion and, and other processes that are under the gradualism or uniformity as like things are constant, we get this very slow change and, and then they’ve got the slow uplift.

00:15:21:18 – 00:15:53:13
Wendy
And that was the that was a very almost recent like theory. Just like in 1870s, I believe it was fourth. And then because of Darwin and his ideas also on the evolutionary and biological side, things happened slowly and things changed slowly. But but the record shows that if you, you know, you get in. And I was helping the kids study some of the the record of the earth because they’re supposed to show them, okay, look at these records of time based on the rock layers.

00:15:53:23 – 00:16:21:11
Wendy
But there’s there’s episodes of of catastrophes like catastrophes, you know, within that like so many extinctions and then a jump in life or you know what I mean? Like you see so much around you. But, but we pegged it into this whole and it’s like, come on, fit, fit, fit. But it’s there. And so like with like the Grand Canyon, we for the kids, I’m like, look at this great unconformity right here.

00:16:21:12 – 00:16:44:11
Wendy
There’s lots of unconformity in science. It just means it doesn’t fit right. But this great unconformity, there’s a missing billion years in the rock record missing billion years a lot across the whole earth. Like they can find it in several places around the earth, not just in the Grand Canyon. You can see it. Yes, there. But it’s kind of like, okay, our dating is off and bellicosity got into this to the site.

00:16:44:13 – 00:17:03:13
Wendy
Okay. We’ve got to get our chronological dating correct in order to see this correctly. Instead of like saying, okay, this is what we think it is, so we’re going to fit it into that hole and we’re going to measure everything based on that. And so you have to back up and say, okay, what’s there? And we’re not just going to ignore it.

00:17:03:13 – 00:17:27:10
Wendy
And then you can see so many evidences that there’s there’s the hand of the Lord is revealed many times in that, that his power is very witty. When He wants to act, he acts. And it’s I mean, we’re in this system and these laws are here that that are holding us in the space. But it’s it’s a very false space.

00:17:27:10 – 00:17:36:23
Wendy
And we need to get back to where we were. And we can’t accept that this is the right way because we’re so far from him. And when he comes again, it’s going to be so different.

00:17:36:23 – 00:17:55:06
Cameron
Yeah, it’s going to be very different. I posed this hypothetical question just out of the blue to friends and family. Like what if this were to play out and kind of, you know, along the line of of chapter one here, and they’re like, I don’t know, I’d probably freak out and go try to hide in a cave or something.

00:17:55:10 – 00:17:57:08
Wendy
Exactly.

00:17:57:08 – 00:18:30:09
Cameron
That may be your reaction if you’re not prepared and don’t know some of these things that are coming, because like Joseph Smith’s popular quote in all of this, that that the great sign of the son of man will come and people will be, oh, it’s a comet. Oh, no, it’s a planet. Like there’s going to be mass confusion even among believers of what the heavens are actually showing when when Christ comes again and and proceeding that we’re going to we’re in for some some fun.

00:18:30:09 – 00:18:31:03
Cameron
Science fiction.

00:18:32:12 – 00:18:52:04
Wendy
Science fiction. That’s right. Okay. Yeah, but it’s truth. It’s like, how can we learn truth now so that we can have more oil in our lamps? Mm hmm. So that we can we can voluntarily have our unbelief corrected instead of having it forced upon us. It’s a much different process. Mm hmm.

00:18:52:19 – 00:19:22:20
Cameron
Yeah. I love that. We’ll get into to Peter’s quote here in chapter two. But so chapter two is a an interesting kind of primer or introduction here. I find this paragraph a very interesting. It’s the third one. They’re on page nine of the LDS version, and it says, As modern man, we frequently labor under the illusion that we are more enlightened than our predecessors.

00:19:23:10 – 00:19:50:23
Cameron
But judging by our failure to understand much of what the prophets wrote, it seems more likely that they experienced many things which we have not. So are we more enlightened than our predecessors? I mean, we have technology at our fingertips. We should be right. But based upon I think it applies to every aspect of life. Right? Like Satan is counteracting God’s plan and trying to thwart us and bury our heads in the sand.

00:19:51:07 – 00:19:53:22
Cameron
And sometimes we willingly do it, don’t we.

00:19:55:03 – 00:20:03:11
Wendy
Yeah. Or we just don’t know where the truth is because we don’t know where to find it right, right now. We don’t know where to find it. And that’s a sad place to be.

00:20:03:24 – 00:20:43:03
Cameron
Yeah, exactly. And so kind of continuing on from that paragraph, it says, for example, nothing in our modern experience serves to fully explain the cause or causes of the miracles associated with the exodus. And so chapter three and four will really dove in and nitpick all of the different aspects of the exodus. But I think that especially with Volokhonsky, he really hyper focused in on the Exodus because it’s a general thing that that most cultures know about, even though it is coming from a biblical standpoint.

00:20:43:03 – 00:21:09:00
Cameron
But but everyone knows the exodus. We all have the movie. We all kind of know that thing and unpacking that in a totally different context or paradigm is, is huge. And then he kind of builds off of that in in his works. And so here as Anthony is introducing us to it, he follows the same pattern, kind of like, hey, the exodus.

00:21:09:00 – 00:21:38:17
Cameron
Let’s let’s take a look at that. There’s a ton of things happening here. And we we put them strictly in the miracle category and that they’re they’re just the miracles of God. And we don’t know how it works, but that that God just performs miracles. But if we look at laws and cosmism catastrophes and things that we can maybe know, the cause or the causes, the laws by which God works here.

00:21:39:07 – 00:22:07:20
Wendy
So hey, before we go further, could we talk a little bit about, about Emanuel Kosky and just his work? Just briefly, you mentioned him, but I don’t know if everybody knows about his work as jumping in. It’s all good. We can balance each other out here. Sometimes I get so passionate about things, so I’m sitting here like just praying, okay, heavenly Father, help me to be, like, more chill.

00:22:08:19 – 00:22:51:05
Wendy
So we’re like for we’re balancing each other out. So. So Emmanuel Vlachos, he passed away, like, what, 1979? I’m working on Wikipedia, but he was just a psychoanalyst. He wasn’t even a scientist or an anthropologist. But he’s but he wrote this book, Ages in Chaos, which is so scientific in nature, like finding different observations basically throughout the world and cultures and and putting them together to show this picture that there is things working in the heavens that affect the Earth throughout the world’s history.

00:22:51:18 – 00:22:56:13
Wendy
So what would you add to that? Because I don’t know a ton about him, but that’s all I know.

00:22:57:12 – 00:23:19:14
Cameron
Yeah. So I’ve only read like one and a half of his books so far, but he’s very like Hugh Nibley ask if anyone is familiar with With You these works, it’s pretty deep and sometimes it’s boring and sometimes it’s a little hard to follow. But he’s kind of in that same time frame and has kind of a similar writing style.

00:23:19:14 – 00:23:51:15
Cameron
But yes, that he he doesn’t come from the typical background that we would say, oh yeah, this is a credible source on all of these things. But isn’t that how it usually works? Some of the great brains of any area of expertize is usually kind of an outsider being led by God to to find certain things and certain patterns because they don’t have all of the traditions and pre conceptions that everyone else has been brought up to to just automatically assume.

00:23:51:15 – 00:24:46:09
Cameron
And so I love Emmanuel’s type of approach to it. And yeah, I would just say that he’s very much like like a honeybee, but it is worth the dove for once, once you’re there. But I do feel like Anthony Larsen’s stuff really prepares us to read his material, but yet that’s where the real meat of it is, because he spent so much time unpacking the ages of the earth and really going through all of the different ancient records of different civilizations to corroborate and and kind of form a new timeline of the earth that nobody ever acknowledged at the time, but really put together and let’s see if there’s something else I was going to

00:24:46:09 – 00:25:15:00
Cameron
say with that. I forgot what it was. Meanwhile, oh, one thing that points out in one of the forwards or prefaces of his book is that Albert Einstein and him were contemporaries and that Einstein was actually reading Volokhonsky is working and agreeing with lots of different things. They had points of disagreement, but even Volokhonsky book was open on Einstein’s desk at the time of Einstein’s death.

00:25:15:00 – 00:25:28:02
Cameron
And so they were they were contemporaries and bouncing ideas off of each other. And I think Volokhonsky will go down as one of the great minds of of our modern age.

00:25:28:20 – 00:25:41:03
Wendy
Yeah. So it’s good. Nice, Einstein. That adds a lot to it, to our body of knowledge. But I think we’ve taken it too far. It’s the. The theory of relativity. Everything’s getting so weird.

00:25:41:22 – 00:25:48:00
Cameron
All right, I don’t even know what that well, but, like, weird. Everything’s swapping places.

00:25:48:00 – 00:26:19:07
Wendy
Yeah, square peg, round hole. Let’s get it in. Those make up all kinds of stuff to make make it. Yeah. There’s a crisis in cosmology. Yeah, it’s. It’s been huge for a while with the James Webb telescope out now get getting more observations like you can hear of people freaking out a little bit like on Twitter and stuff being like like has everything that I’ve learned you know, is this astrophysicist, you know, background been, you know, wrong so I mean, crazy like, like turning on its head or something.

00:26:19:07 – 00:26:45:11
Cameron
So that’s why I love a gospel perspective in all of this, because God doesn’t lie and he doesn’t deceive. Right. And so if we are scripturally founded in in our journey, then we don’t have that flying off the handle at new information or seemingly conflicting things as they come to us, we go back to Scripture, ground ourselves again and go, Oh, okay, it was all there.

00:26:45:11 – 00:26:57:00
Cameron
I just am looking at it from a new perspective and yeah, it’s very interesting how all of this is very Christ centered and and gospel oriented at its heart.

00:26:57:14 – 00:26:59:13
Wendy
Yes.

00:26:59:13 – 00:27:24:04
Cameron
So I really like at the bottom of page ten, so just these two sort paragraphs, it says because the Book of Exodus does not explain the cause or causes of the miracles which Moses described. We lack the information necessary to pursue such an inquiry. Faced with this type of a problem, modern crime detection turns to other witnesses for corroborating testimony.

00:27:24:04 – 00:27:49:02
Cameron
Did others present see the incident? What did they see or think they saw, etc.? And so this gives a little bit of a primer, but we’ll get into it in chapter three and four. But the other witnesses of the Exodus, like how many times have we went through Genesis and Exodus in our our Bible studies and just like, hmm, that’s really cool.

00:27:49:02 – 00:28:19:05
Cameron
But I never even once thought to go look at other people’s records because there’s more people on the earth than than just the Egyptians and the the the Israelites. And so looking and seeing, oh, is there corroborating testimony? And what did they see on page 13? We have just a really brief look at some of these, but it says that the Egyptians says that we saw the water turned to blood, followed by great signs in the heavens.

00:28:19:16 – 00:28:48:00
Cameron
The Babylonians said that not just the water, but the whole world turned red. We saw a pillar and felt an incredible earthquake that leveled our cities. The Persians said that the earth shook and fire range from the sky. Mesoamerican said that yes, fire and stones from the sky and all the world became dark. The Chinese have records that, yes, very dark, and the ocean rose up and spilled over the whole continent.

00:28:48:15 – 00:29:09:16
Cameron
So it’s not just the Israelites and it’s not just some really super localized event. This is this is very cataclysmic and affecting the entire planet. And anyway, I found that just like kind of mind blowing, that I had never considered it and no one should see anything else.

00:29:09:16 – 00:29:42:00
Wendy
Yeah, I love that. It makes me think of the title page in the Book of Mormon How the Lord, you know, he says it is written by the hand of Mormon, you know, he says so he wrote the Book of Mormon, which is to show onto the remnant of the House of Israel what great things Lord have done for their fathers, that they may know the covenants of the Lord, that they are not cast off forever.

00:29:42:20 – 00:30:19:01
Wendy
The convincing of June, the Gentile that Jesus is the Christ. And so when I look when I look at these things and, you know, and the Lord revealing himself to all nations, could there have, wouldn’t he doesn’t he love all of his children? Could there have been other prophets in other areas? I don’t know. It makes me it makes me think that that must be the case, that he’s working with all his children and showing those those signs and wonders in the covenants to try to draw them unto him.

00:30:20:22 – 00:30:44:18
Wendy
So I look forward to receiving all those records. Right? We don’t have a full knowledge of it, but we know that they’re going to come. And but that was a pillar of fire. You know, anywhere in the scripture he’s talking about pillar. That’s a very symbolic for covenants. There’s there’s a you know, that of the Lord racism in the Book of Mormon.

00:30:44:18 – 00:31:08:03
Wendy
It references in that footnote to it being the Lord Jesus Christ. And you know, we want to be, you know, we we come unto him, enter covenants of baptism, and then through the baptism of water and then the baptism of the fire and of the Holy Ghost. And in the Scriptures, it describes that it describes that as as a pillar of fire.

00:31:08:04 – 00:31:42:03
Wendy
And and people are in the in the fire, but they’re not being burned. And you see evidence of that pillar throughout Scripture. You know, anyway, we don’t have to get into all of it. But you, the one that especially as we’re studying the Old Testament and you see see it is it’s not a rare occurrence for them. It was it happened, you know, and with the prophet and it’s just Elijah, you know, calling down the fire from heaven, you know, this pillar of fire.

00:31:42:03 – 00:32:07:15
Wendy
And there’s jumping around trying to get it to happen and doesn’t happen for for the apostates because their religion is built on apostasy. But it’s still got echoes of what they saw in the sky, what they felt like they should worship as an idol. So anyway, it’s it’s really exciting to read these ancient records and see that the Lord is working with the people.

00:32:07:22 – 00:32:15:05
Cameron
They’re Hmm, I love it. I know there’s so many different tangents in just what little you said right there that I.

00:32:15:05 – 00:32:15:19
Wendy
Was like, Oh.

00:32:16:04 – 00:32:34:24
Cameron
That would be an episode. That was be an episode like, I love it. I’m so excited to actually dove into to all of those because I’ve just been studying by myself. So I have never really talked to anybody and like, oh, I want your opinion on this. And that would be so fun. Hasn’t the Old Testament here been just so fun for you to to go through it?

00:32:35:01 – 00:32:39:17
Cameron
Oh, my goodness. All of these new aspects. The Titan.

00:32:40:04 – 00:33:11:18
Wendy
Yeah, about Mt. Sinai, you know, the cloud on it and the fire and the shaking and the the sound. The sound. The voice of the Lord. Their sound. There’s light vibration, you know, lightest vibration. It’s frequency. It’s got a harmonic tone to it. And as we come to him, we’re actually vibrating differently because he blesses us with his light and we change and we we’re going to be able to sing the Songs of Zion and that bring about miracles.

00:33:11:18 – 00:33:32:09
Wendy
I mean, there’s there’s so much to sound that’s a whole other. So it’s just the Scripture to reading through the word. The word is Jesus Christ in it and just read through the scriptures. With that in mind, it’s and the Hebrew word, the R word of is is really exciting to look at too. Yeah.

00:33:33:08 – 00:33:34:00
Cameron
I love it.

00:33:36:03 – 00:34:03:07
Cameron
So one thing that it, it doesn’t have like a really great synopsis of this, but I think that we find it in Isaiah, they’re all apocalyptic writers, meaning those that are prophesying of the end times scenario right before Christ comes, they’re describing future events using their contemporary or the the phenomenon that they’re actually seeing, experiencing or have heard about from their predecessors.

00:34:03:22 – 00:34:41:19
Cameron
And so when, when Isaiah talks about things that have been, shall be and that that really resonated with me this last year, seeing that all of the prophets look forward to our day and that we should expect the same type of things. I mean, they had limited space and things to, to, to prophesy forward with and so what we have is key or very essential to a to recognizing the signs of the times and preparing ourselves for for the coming of the Lord.

00:34:41:19 – 00:35:06:23
Cameron
And so the Old Testament has just been so fun. Unfortunately, I didn’t have the full cosmological view of it going through the Old Testament this time, but it really has opened my mind in lots of different ways with that apocalyptic framework in mind, looking at every single thing and saying, Hmm, did they prophesy that this will happen again?

00:35:07:06 – 00:35:35:01
Cameron
And why is that important that we take what they were seeing and applying it forward? Yes, it was key for me. So on page 14, he goes. Anthony It goes through a second. Peter And this is I believe all in chapter three. So this is verses three through seven and I’m just going to be kind of cherry picking some of these phrases out of here.

00:35:35:01 – 00:36:15:16
Cameron
But here Peter is condemning those who are willingly ignorant about the fact that the heavens and the earth and and will change in the future. So it says here that. Yeah, for for this note, let me let me go back a little ways. So knowing this first that there shall come in the last days scoffers walking after their own lusts and saying where is the promise of this coming for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.

00:36:16:03 – 00:36:44:07
Cameron
I mean, that’s kind of echoed in the Book of Mormon when they are taking Samuel the eliminates prophecies and and going to to put to death the believers right. I mean very similar tie ins in the Book of Mormon and for this they willingly are ignorant of that by the word of God, the heavens were of old and the earth standing out of the water and in the water whereby the world out then was being overflowed, water perished.

00:36:44:19 – 00:37:09:15
Cameron
But the heavens and the earth, which are now by the same word, are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. And so Volokhonsky and Anthony Larson heavily quote and bring this up all the time of of second Peter ends the the new heavens and the new earth that is prophesied.

00:37:10:02 – 00:37:26:03
Cameron
So what is what do we learn from from Peter and why is that scripture crucial in our understanding of the way that God works, has worked and will work? What would you say to that?

00:37:26:03 – 00:37:57:24
Wendy
Oh, I think for me, it’s like getting out of my own head and getting like being willing to to be wrong about a lot of things and being open to just having my foundation like, wait, things aren’t always as they have been. You know, I don’t want to be a scholar. I don’t want to just be walking, ask my own lesson saying, hey, you know, drink, drink wine today for tomorrow we die.

00:37:57:24 – 00:38:23:19
Wendy
And it’s like it’ll just be whatever, you know? There’s no consequences. No, no judgment. But but the but this says to me, you know, there’s there was an old heaven’s before the one we have now that there was a fall in the heavens that is different than what we now experience, that we were closer to God and that we fell into this realm.

00:38:23:23 – 00:38:52:20
Wendy
And in order to return to him, we’re going to be brought back. It’s almost like the plan of salvation in the context of the Earth that the Earth is going to be gathered. And so being open to like, okay, so there will be a new heavens and a new earth. There’ll be things happening in the heavens, not just signs that will help us know that he’s coming, but actual changes to to almost a restoration of all things.

00:38:52:20 – 00:39:15:16
Wendy
Like President Nelson said, there’s going to be this ongoing restoration that we’re experiencing. And however that looks, it could be other planetary bodies actually like like in a city, it could be a planet, you know, it could be a sphere that that was taken from the earth. I mean, doesn’t that make more sense than like a spaceship or something?

00:39:15:16 – 00:39:54:07
Wendy
Or they’re just, oh, you know, they all said they’re just somewhere in the atmosphere here. I mean, if could the Earth have been scattered like literally like her pieces being torn off, you know what I mean? Like she will be gathered and she will be brought back into the presence of Gordon Jordan, the 88, that says that that she is an obedient she’s a she keeps the laws of of I can’t remember how it goes but anyway she she will inherit a celestial kingdom and we with her so and then that begs the question other questions that could come up because of that.

00:39:54:07 – 00:40:02:05
Wendy
But we’ll go there. Are there other well other planets that are not obedient? There might be.

00:40:03:09 – 00:40:28:04
Cameron
A little bit. I’m excited to get into that conversation. That might be like episode like 34 or something. But okay, well, I’ve never necessarily thought about that and so forth. So, so that’s the end of, of chapter two. Is there anything else that you wanted to, to bring out with, with those first two chapters that we missed her?

00:40:28:04 – 00:40:39:09
Cameron
They’re they’re just little short snippets and a lot of things to chew on and questions to ask along the way, but I love this book and it’s a very great introduction I think.

00:40:40:04 – 00:41:04:03
Wendy
Yeah. Oh there are a number with for this. They are willingly ignorant right. Those that that have like observation before them and or truth given to them, but they just scoff at, scoff at those that have the truth. And that’s really what the the law says that will be persecuted in the last days for for any truth that we do have.

00:41:04:14 – 00:41:34:05
Wendy
And so it’s be like bellicosity. And the persecution that he went through with this book was not well-received at all. And so he went through a lot of persecution. Anthony Larson also was was scoffed at in this. And so having having an understanding of these things, it’s not easy, but how how do you stand true to things that you know to be true, even if there’s persecution?

00:41:34:05 – 00:41:53:18
Wendy
And so I’m trying to get through a point where I’m like, okay, I can’t even tell my family. I haven’t even talked about these things. I’m like, I’m still trying to just get a base testimony of it. You know, going through the Scriptures and then the Lord reveals it to not just from scientific observations or somebody telling you and saying, Oh, that is that true?

00:41:53:18 – 00:42:14:04
Wendy
And so because because observation making observations is science basically is what I teach my kids. What do you see? Like, how does that does that change your paradigm? Like what does it you know, you should trust yourself. You know, we plant a seed. What is what is growing? Is it good? Then you continue to to to feed it.

00:42:14:04 – 00:42:38:16
Wendy
And we should be doing that in the gospel and in our lives to find truth. And so if we run up against opposition, that’s okay. And if it’s not according to what everybody else thinks, that’s okay because we’re supposed to be a peculiar people. And Joseph Smith talked of these things and many of his contemporaries wrote about it in journals.

00:42:38:16 – 00:43:05:02
Wendy
And then we’re going to get into that later, too. But just hang in there. Keep coming back and reading the book because I mean, part of it right now is like, well, what happened in the skies? What was it that that caused all these things and keep keep an open mind and open heart to it. And and the Lord will reveal it not just as a knowing, but as a like almost said I.

00:43:05:10 – 00:43:26:06
Wendy
I know these things not of myself, but because the Spirit has revealed them to me. And that’s where we want to be. And we keep checking things against the Gospel and against the Word of the Lord that the Lord will actually help us to come close to Him and be more on the covenant path than we ever were.

00:43:27:06 – 00:43:56:03
Wendy
And that’s what’s this has given me, is just seeing the glory of God in the Scripture. Seeing is light and His power is just so different and more straight and true than I ever I ever experienced before. And seeing the temple’s symbolism in a way that’s that was shown in the skies to all inhabitants, that they all drew these symbols that are on our temples.

00:43:56:03 – 00:44:18:01
Wendy
I’m like, Wait a second, are we pagan? You know what I mean? It’s like, No, those are just like there’s this apostates things that came true, but we have the truth. But in a sense we have it. But do we understand it? And that a lot of these things, like I run into people that that are excited about these these concepts.

00:44:18:08 – 00:44:49:07
Wendy
But unless you have the Lord revealing it to you also and, and becoming a part of your covenant path and your covenant relationship, there’s only a certain level of truth that you can obtain because these things are there sacred things about it. There’s sacred symbols in the sky and in this these old heavens before Noah’s flood that that caused the flood, when that that system broke apart.

00:44:49:20 – 00:45:11:15
Wendy
So it’s it’s exciting to go back to that. I’m excited for the Lord to come and I’m excited to see these things because even though there’s going to be a lot of catastrophes, we can be like, here is, you know what I mean? There’s there’s a shift and and it’s it’s going to be okay. Anybody you get excited about it.

00:45:12:00 – 00:45:16:15
Cameron
Mm. I love it. So fun perspective.

00:45:17:02 – 00:45:21:14
Wendy
So I just keep talking. Cameron got a great start and sometimes I.

00:45:21:14 – 00:45:54:18
Cameron
Think it’s such a powerful, not like a disclaimer, but of the fact that how the restoration really works. Because I find that that many, including myself, have a hard transition right up against that type of restoration when when God himself is revealing truths to you and it has to become part of your of your covenant path. I mean, that is crucial to to learn and grow into otherwise.

00:45:54:18 – 00:46:22:23
Cameron
Like you said, it just taps off at a certain level because all things testify of Christ. And and if we’re just coming at it from a one point perspective or just coming from a secular viewpoint, you just can receive the fullness. But yet once we look at it, it’s in Scripture, it’s in our temples, it’s over the pulpit many times that it it’s been there all along.

00:46:22:23 – 00:46:57:20
Cameron
And and what a beautiful journey is to to realize that God loves each one of us and is ready for us to prepare ourselves for the second coming of Jesus Christ. I love that. So many fun things. So for those following along, if you don’t have the book yet, here’s just a taste of the table of contents. So our next time we will be discussing the Exodus in chapters three and possibly four.

00:46:57:20 – 00:47:25:14
Cameron
Chapter five. We’re looking at the Book of Mormon and Catastrophizing. Chapter six is is modern prophecy and echoes of the past. Chapter seven is the of Revelation A New Perspective. Chapter eight The Siege of Jerusalem. Chapter nine is when they return to my favorite Chapter 11 and then Chapter ten that we may better understand. And then some appendixes appendices right?

00:47:25:14 – 00:47:28:01
Cameron
Yeah. I’m not scientific. I pronouncing.

00:47:28:01 – 00:47:28:08
Wendy
That.

00:47:31:18 – 00:48:01:14
Cameron
If you really want the background on Volokhonsky or his works or also appendix C is the vision of Charles de Evans, which is highly significant and applicable to all of this. So that’s where we’re headed. We’re into some some fun, different chapters and topics here. But thanks for joining. Thanks for being interested and keeping an open mind as we dove through and learn all of this together.

00:48:01:14 – 00:48:02:06
Cameron
It’s so exciting.

00:48:02:12 – 00:48:04:02
Wendy
I’m always learning.

00:48:05:21 – 00:48:06:09
Cameron
All right.

00:48:06:11 – 00:48:07:07
Wendy
Thank you, Cameron.

00:48:07:11 – 00:48:08:12
Cameron
You’re so welcome.

00:00:00:10 – 00:00:26:00
Cameron
Hi. And welcome to all you likeminded nerds. Wendy and I just want to express our gratitude for all your lovely encouragement and ideas as we start discussing Cosmism and planetary close encounters as it relates to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I’m completely new to all of these ideas and theories, whereas Wendy has a good couple of years on me, but together we hope to spark conversation and serve as a guidepost to greater resources as we all prepare for the second coming.

00:00:26:19 – 00:00:52:23
Cameron
In these discussions, we are starting by having a book discussion of Anthony Larson’s trilogy. These three books give a great primer to Villa Cox’s paradigm shifts. We are so excited that you are interested and willing to go on this journey with us. And with that, let’s jump into today’s episode. Everyone, welcome back for another round of Cosmism with Cameron and Wendy.

00:00:55:00 – 00:01:46:17
Cameron
So today we are going to be discussing Anthony Larson’s book, Chapter three today. So this one is about the science of the exodus. And so this one is one of the more heavy chapters, a lot of content put in to these few short pages, but I don’t know, studying it this week. There’s so many different areas and tangents and rabbit holes to go down, but we’re we’re looking at the exodus as kind of the great type or pattern for Cosmism in in general, because I think that this is where Volokhonsky really shines is in his discovery and analysis of some of these things and patterns that happen at the Exodus.

00:01:46:17 – 00:02:25:08
Cameron
So I’m kind of diving into the actual book here from, from Larson any sort of puzzle Steve before but any words of wisdom as we are looking at the exodus. Wendy, for for people that this is a new paradigm shift for us. Where are the best resources and articles or, or things to look at when we are diving into the Exodus story as told from this kind of a viewpoint?

00:02:26:04 – 00:03:05:00
Wendy
Well, there are there are several I may ask is like fairly old, like some 1950s and or is it 70? I think it’s about 1950. So I just got my headset plugged in. Can you hear me okay? Yep. That better? Okay. So, I mean, and that’s that’s quite old. We have a lot more there’s a lot more research out there and observations that people were inspired by Volokhonsky and have done a lot of research since then in both scientific and anthropological studies.

00:03:06:09 – 00:03:31:03
Wendy
So yeah, over at Thunderbolts is a good one. And Anthony Larson has lots of lectures on his YouTube channel, Mormon Prophecy, but especially just in the Scriptures and in the temple and to the Spirit, the the Lord will teach you more than than you can get anywhere there, because that’s how prophecy works. I mean, we’re trying to understand it literally.

00:03:31:03 – 00:04:02:11
Wendy
Like in the preface, Larson pointed out, he’s like, this is this is meant to be a book that helps to inform prophetic understanding. Right. And so an understanding from a different perspective, as if these things are parables. Yes. But if we understand it even literally, that brings a whole other perspective because it brings like God down to us, you know what I mean?

00:04:02:11 – 00:04:33:21
Wendy
Like we talk about the spiritual aspect of of our theology so much, but there is a temporal aspect of it that is, is just as important because the temple and the spiritual go together. And when we find that merging bridge, then faith can be like we can exercise faith, right? We can have an even greater, greater testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ as he works among us.

00:04:33:21 – 00:04:58:16
Wendy
You know, in the past, present and future that God is not bearing right is Mormon. Nine says that God is the same yesterday, today and forever. And so if miracles have aren’t here, you know, we’re we’re so fallen from from the from the presence of God, you know, as far as we can be, I hope not. But we need to get back into his presence.

00:04:58:17 – 00:05:26:00
Wendy
And so these miracles, we need to see them in our skies. We need to see the Lord blessing Zion just like he blessed Israelites. And and to have faith in him in that and to cut off that which isn’t a part of us. Right, to deliver us and not having to pick up the sword to do that. It’s about having faith in Jesus that he will he is the deliverer.

00:05:26:04 – 00:05:38:22
Wendy
So anyway, I when I see these things, it gets me excited because it’s like, Bring on Zion. So anyway, long, long answer. But yes, the scriptures are covered. Our covenants in the temple, those are those are key. Mm hmm.

00:05:39:06 – 00:06:04:17
Cameron
I love it. Yeah. So diving into the first paragraph here, I think this is a really great way to kind of describe what we’re we’re taking a look at. Uh, he’s referring to Volokhonsky and says that it was his thesis that the world was nearly destroyed in the past, within the memory of mankind, when other celestial bodies nearly collided with the Earth.

00:06:05:05 – 00:06:20:04
Cameron
And so the exodus is put forth here as a Earth and Venus near collision or pass by, I don’t know, fly by, whatever you want to call.

00:06:21:03 – 00:06:46:13
Wendy
It, you know, and I don’t even I don’t even like I don’t like the wording near collision. I’m of the mindset I try to be to to even in my thoughts to create like that positive or to have that good desire for this. So I don’t like near collision. I like what did I, I wanted to change it to.

00:06:46:13 – 00:07:07:21
Wendy
I got too many notes, but it’s just, just an encounter. Right. And some sometimes we think, oh, if, if I come into the presence of God, what is that going to be like? You know what I mean? We don’t there shouldn’t be any here. How can we come into God’s presence with fear? Right. But it’s it’s a it’s an encounter.

00:07:08:08 – 00:07:30:09
Wendy
Mm hmm. It’s it’s something that is is marvelous signs and wonders. Right. So I don’t think they’re collision. Yeah. And so I want to extract that out. Close Encounters is what I put, but I don’t like that it’s not aliens, but it is definitely different. Right? We’re having this paradigm shift, for sure.

00:07:30:21 – 00:07:40:20
Cameron
Mm hmm. Yeah. I love it. In Worlds in Collision by Volokhonsky. He does throw that term out sometimes. Close Encounters.

00:07:41:05 – 00:07:42:03
Wendy
Does he? Yeah.

00:07:42:04 – 00:07:57:18
Cameron
I forget when I was first listening to that book, I was like, Where are we talking aliens? Because we just have such a weird concept of that phrase now. Right? But right. But yeah, VOLOKHONSKY uses that a few times in his book as a close encounter, so I really like that.

00:07:58:06 – 00:08:20:21
Wendy
Yeah, you know, and this just so readers, I mean, listeners know this is the first time I’ve read these books and I read Bellicosity a while ago. And as I’m reading this, it’s like it’s really good because he condenses everything into like, this is what he goes through. So if you want to know all this, you’ve got to go read Volokhonsky for all the proofs.

00:08:21:07 – 00:08:26:22
Wendy
But I like it because it’s very concise and what’s what’s going on? Mm hmm. Yeah.

00:08:27:14 – 00:08:52:21
Cameron
Yeah, I think it’s a great kind of introductory type of thing. So you were the one that pointed me to Leland Tanner and on his Twitter feed on Twitter. So confusing to me to navigate. But on one of his threads there, he was giving kind of a synopsis of like, okay, if you want to start out from from square one.

00:08:53:08 – 00:09:10:01
Cameron
Anthony Larsson’s three books are a perfect kind of gateway into it to kind of get your bearings on on a whole new paradigm shift kind of thing. So, yeah, I really love but I mean, there’s a lot of information here, but it’s just kind of a rough overview too, pointing to other things.

00:09:10:16 – 00:09:24:00
Wendy
Yes, because I don’t think we can go through that here in this podcast. And I just want to be like the intent of this for me is is not to get it’s just too much for us to do, right. Cameron will do.

00:09:24:11 – 00:09:27:18
Cameron
That in-depth podcast.

00:09:27:18 – 00:09:33:02
Wendy
That’s not so let’s yeah, we can do a brief summary. Let’s do that but yeah.

00:09:33:09 – 00:10:05:16
Cameron
So that the next paragraph there so there’s accounts of these near collisions where close encounters that exist today in the written and oral traditions of all the peoples of the earth. And so that’s what I really loved about Volokhonsky. His work is going through and realizing that it wasn’t just the Israelites. You know, coming from our Christian perspective of the Bible stories, but looking at lots of different cultures that are all mirroring very similar stories at very similar times.

00:10:05:16 – 00:10:37:09
Cameron
And so taking a look at the history of the Earth is is awesome. And the the exodus is, is one that’s that’s rich in that. So he starts off by quoting from a book called Volokhonsky Reconsidered and um, let me just read this first paragraph here because I find it very interesting to, to consider the ages of the earth here.

00:10:37:23 – 00:11:13:11
Cameron
And so one of the most significant classical isms of ancient history, the exodus and aware of a link between the circuit of heavenly bodies and the catastrophic ruin of previous generations, the ancients ceaselessly watched the planetary movements. Their traditions recalled that when old epochs dissolved, the new age or sun was marked by different celestial paths. Astronomers and seers diligently watched for any change that might augur approaching destruction and the end of an age.

00:11:14:06 – 00:11:49:20
Cameron
And so what are your your thoughts or your studies on the different ages or the different suns of of the earth? Because we are firmly planted in our mindset, at least I am. I’m speaking for personal. I guess that, you know, this is our sun. It’s always been our sun and it will always be our sun. But like, what about these different cultures and and historical records of the ages of the earth?

00:11:49:20 – 00:12:24:00
Wendy
Well, in a lot of ways, you know, I want to tie it just back to like the Book of Mormon. Right. We have a record there of, you know, with the restoration of the gospel like that, that Joseph Smith was called to restore and as almost being a key to helping us to be open to hearing the Word of the Lord from those that have gone before us through to her to hear of of his word that comes from the dust.

00:12:24:00 – 00:13:00:08
Wendy
Right. And so if we can expand our minds and in a way to that, the Lord has spoken to all his children throughout the ages, and we know that. But we don’t have scripture from them, per se. And so when you study these things, so it’s, it’s I like to just study images in a sense, and study things like the Persepolis or Egyptian, the sun that they they knew was different than ours.

00:13:00:08 – 00:13:26:23
Wendy
And that’s very I mean, it’s it’s clear that that that’s the case, but it’s still hard for us to recognize that with our current paradigm. And our current paradigm is just like a veil. And so if we can get out of that and then but but in a sense, you got to be careful, though, to not study the philosophies of men that have become attached to those things.

00:13:27:08 – 00:13:55:06
Wendy
So that makes sense. Yeah, because even in bellicosity, there’s a lot there’s some, there’s some error. For instance, in the second paragraph down from where you’re reading, it says, but long before 1500 B.C., Jupiter for centuries, chief among the duties shattered the serenity of skies. A brilliant, fiery object expelled from that planet entered upon a long, elliptical orbit around the sun.

00:13:55:07 – 00:14:25:08
Wendy
The feared God, Jupiter, had given birth to the comet and Protoplanet Venus and he, if you followed this thread back and why they took that position, why Volokhonsky took that position, and what not, based on what some cultures had said about where Venus originated from, it’s not the current theory of what. When we make more and more observations, it’s changed.

00:14:26:22 – 00:14:55:22
Wendy
And I’m not I’m not an expert on these things. I try my I try my best. But I like to be educated on the current theories. Now, theories change and throughout throughout ages, science has changed. And we’re supposed to be getting that. And in science, I worry a little bit because we’re so much pushing facts into into kids instead of studying the process of science, the process of observation, just like Alma was teaching the people, the Zora.

00:14:55:23 – 00:15:38:04
Wendy
Right. So that Alma 32 Right. It’s like you got to test it, right? So so we have to be, we have to understand that there are going to be errors and we have to find the the common nullity of of things and do enough research to find the commonalities and to see where things aren’t fitting, like putting a puzzle together, but not throwing it all out, but just saying what is truth and what has just been the philosophies of men as they’ve tried to .2. a picture like a kindergartner and say, okay, well then this must be because of this and they’re just not isn’t enough information to make that big jump.

00:15:38:12 – 00:16:00:21
Wendy
So in all of these studies, you have to be careful to to have a measure of like this could be wrong, but I’m going to have a working theory, right? We make a hypothesis this and and the Lord works with us on that. And we and he he keeps informing us as we keep trying. But that’s how we exercise faith and we we test something.

00:16:00:21 – 00:16:20:14
Wendy
And is this fruit? Does it taste good? Does it testify of Christ? Sometimes you’re like you said in the last podcast, you have to put things on the shelf and that’s fine. But we don’t need to be fearful either that as you read things like this, it’s like, okay, there, there, this could be right. It could be wrong.

00:16:20:14 – 00:16:42:14
Wendy
But education is about about consuming facts and sifting through them and then implementing truth into your own soul. And so the Lord wants that for us. So I don’t know why I went off on that tangent, but you’re asking about ages of the earth and the sense we will have a difference then, and we need to be okay with that.

00:16:42:14 – 00:17:01:10
Wendy
We don’t know exactly how it’s going to look, and I don’t want to go through and say, this is what happened, this is what happened. There are theories and you can go and learn of them for yourself, because this is that’s a huge question. And that’s something that that we need to take the time to and responsibility to do it ourselves, because it’s out.

00:17:01:10 – 00:17:04:14
Wendy
If you can, you can do the research. Mm hmm. Okay.

00:17:06:00 – 00:17:43:20
Cameron
So two different things. My brain was, like, trying to decide which one to go through first, and I don’t know. So with the the thing that you just mentioned there about Jupiter giving birth to Venus and the Protoplanet and stuff, so what has has changed or what new theories and things have come from that? Because as I was looking at that, I was like, Oh, okay, I’m trying to wrestle with it, but so yeah, which, which theories and things are you referencing there and how can I go and find out more like is thunderbolts kind of a good one for for some of those theories or.

00:17:44:06 – 00:18:11:13
Wendy
Yes. So that’s that’s the pretty, pretty wide consensus that that is not correct about Jupiter. I mean, Venus coming from Jupiter, it is explored a lot at thunderbolts. And thunderbolts is a it can get really deep there. I mean, they’re plasma physicists and, you know, a lot. And so some of the things don’t get turned off if you get a video about that.

00:18:11:13 – 00:18:34:04
Wendy
But or you could read they’re there. But they have a lot of layman videos, too, that you can search through. But what I’m referring to is one of the sons of the later ages was Saturn. And and a lot of these ancient cultures will say the sun is Saturn. And it’s very clear that they’re pointing to Saturn. And we’re like, What are you talking about?

00:18:34:04 – 00:19:13:21
Wendy
Saturn. But Saturn. So we’re in our pride as a people were like they just didn’t know what they were talking about. No, you need to like if you Catholics, so many people around the world trying it, saying it. And it’s it’s it’s pretty clear that and in many, many instances, there’s so many observations that it was Saturn and that Venus was part of a configuration with Mars and Earth, that we were in and then aligned kind of like a just above stacked polar alignment because they it’s like a the throne of God at our North Pole.

00:19:14:02 – 00:19:39:17
Wendy
And so it completely debunks gravity, which I don’t know, we’re going to get into this, honestly. We were talking about Venus. I’m like, okay, this will be a good introduction to like, why is gravity like, you know, what’s what about gravity with this comet, Venus, coming so close to us? Yeah, right. Yeah. But gravity is is much weaker than and we we even say that in science I teach it’s a very weak force.

00:19:39:17 – 00:20:11:22
Wendy
Yes, it is. And it doesn’t it doesn’t have a bearing over electro magnetism. And anyway, so so we’ve got we’ve got the throne of God in the sky during the time between between Adam leaving the garden and, and Noah’s flood. And so where did all that water come from? When we were disconnected from from that that holy conflict.

00:20:11:22 – 00:20:38:09
Wendy
I don’t even like calling it politics, integration, even just saying and I’m like, oh, can we just say it’s configuration and heaven? Because I feel like it’s a sacred word. And when words have power and the sound of I mean, throughout Scripture, just the word is powerful. I mean, it’s, it’s representing Christ. And so it’s like bringing in to creation and it has no that word.

00:20:38:09 – 00:21:01:14
Wendy
And that just even as I am trying to understand it, has no power unless it’s revealed to us honestly. Oh, so I mean, we those are the kind of things that we can pray in. And I’m seeking to understand my my relationship with the father in that myself. So anyway, it’s in temples, by the way, in the temple on the back wall.

00:21:01:24 – 00:21:22:08
Wendy
I’ve been studying this for a couple of years and I turned around and there it is on the back wall. It was like, Are you kidding me? It’s been right there the whole time. So very exciting in the creation room. So so I don’t know if that helps answer your question. Maybe we can get into more of that, but that’s more that can be investigated at thunderbolts as well.

00:21:23:04 – 00:21:50:01
Cameron
So I found this chapter of Worlds in Collision very interesting. So I’m just going to pop it up on the screen so you can read this ahead of time. But this one talks about the sons ages, and I believe this is in chapter one, if I’m not mistaken. I find that real quick. The sons ages. This is chapter two of the Prolog, if anybody wants to go read it themselves.

00:21:51:10 – 00:22:19:22
Cameron
But just quoting a few different parts from it, which I think helps describe kind of the the sons ages and where the exodus really falls into all of this. So it says an oft repeated occurrence in the traditions of the world’s ages is the advent of a new sun in the sky at the beginning of every age. The word son is substituted for the word age in the Cosmo canonical traditions.

00:22:19:22 – 00:23:00:01
Cameron
Cosmo? Yeah. Is that the right word? Nice job of many people’s all over the world. The Mayas counted their ages by the names of their consecutive sons. These were called water, sun, earthquakes on Hurricane, sun, fire, sun. These suns marked the epochs to which are attributed the various catastrophes the world has suffered. It’s a lot of social of the native Indian scholar in his annals of the kings of Texcoco describe the world’s ages by the names of suns, the water, sun or the sun of waters was the first stage terminated by a deluge in which most all creatures perished.

00:23:00:08 – 00:23:26:14
Cameron
The earthquake, sun or age perished in a tear. Terrific earthquake. When the earth broke in many places and mountains fell the world age of the hurricane sun came to its destruction in a cosmic hurricane. The fire sun was the world age that went down in a rain of fire and we have just kind of pull in some highlights from some different cultures here.

00:23:26:24 – 00:23:56:04
Cameron
So this one is from Gomera, the conquest of Mexico. So there’s the five suns that are epochs and it says that there were five sons and in another tradition there were seven suns in a Buddhist sacred book. It talks about world cycles and that there are three destructions the destruction by water, the destruction by fire, and the destruction by wind.

00:23:57:15 – 00:24:22:18
Cameron
In another one, there was nine sons or nine ages and there in the sibyl says that’s now is the seventh son prophesied that two ages yet to come that the eighth and the ninth sons and anyway just kind of going along that line that there’s many different cultures that have histories of their different ages or they’re different suns.

00:24:23:05 – 00:24:53:06
Cameron
And so it says, did the reason for the substitution of the word son for epoch by the peoples of both hemispheres lie in the changed appearance of the luminary and its changed path across the sky in each world age. And so I loved the Ellicott Skis kind of research on that. And, you know, there’s more information in his book, but just kind of giving us an idea that the God works in patterns, right?

00:24:53:06 – 00:25:09:12
Cameron
And and there’s these these cycles. And yes, they might end differently, but it’s still one of those cycles or, you know, in a in a gospel term, we might call them kind of like dispensations or something along those lines.

00:25:09:12 – 00:25:19:04
Wendy
That’s what I was thinking too. Different prophets of different, you know. Yeah. With kids of those dispensation. Mm. Love it.

00:25:19:04 – 00:25:19:20
Cameron
So.

00:25:21:01 – 00:25:42:10
Wendy
You know, it also reminded me like the second book of Ezra’s. I don’t know if it was talking about, you know, by water, fire, wind, I don’t know. There was just a part in that where it was it talks about that. Anyway, sorry, I don’t go ahead. I know so many cool things you can branch out here. God.

00:25:42:23 – 00:26:02:00
Cameron
I know. Like my brain first goes to like Lance Richardsons stuff with the the for different skin colors and and how the Lord gave each of them one of those elements so that when the millennium dawns that they bring those all back together. But I’m like, Oh my gosh, that’s like a totally different subject.

00:26:02:00 – 00:26:02:09
Wendy
Yeah.

00:26:03:08 – 00:26:07:02
Cameron
So many different rabbit holes. However.

00:26:07:02 – 00:26:16:23
Wendy
But pattern’s right isn’t about patterns, doesn’t it all? Like, it’s it’s really cool. It’s really cool how the Lord just weaves it all all in.

00:26:16:23 – 00:26:48:04
Cameron
Exactly. There was something in this last week I patterned my brain, but like I haven’t put it into words yet. What was it so that the God really does give everybody each culture, each like he’s testifying to all of his children, of his patterns and his works. Right. And so that’s why we’re taught to to seek out of the best books in doctrine and covenants, you know, with the school, the prophets and and they’re learning.

00:26:48:12 – 00:27:11:10
Cameron
They’re in Kirtland. And I do that seek everything I’ve laid out, all of it for for everyone. But you have to work together in order to put together the pieces. This puzzle, it’s scattered everywhere, just like scattered Israel. But as we do start gathering, we’ll start recognizing that these patterns are in all of the cultures and that God’s been working with us the entire time.

00:27:11:19 – 00:27:19:08
Cameron
And so I really love that, that gospel connection specifically with Cosmism and yeah.

00:27:19:23 – 00:27:54:04
Wendy
Isn’t it cool and Joseph Smith saw these things. I know he did because I mean, we, we have it in our temple endowment and on temples. I mean, Saturn is on the Salt Lake Temple and and, you know, the North and the Polaris. There is the the Big Dipper is pointing to Polaris. And anyway, just so many things on the top of the conference center, there is the mountain of the Lord with with the the throne of God.

00:27:54:04 – 00:28:27:14
Wendy
They’re at the top anyway. So it’s so it’s so cool to see that, that these things are there. And I wonder if that because of all those, when we’re everybody’s coming together, you know, Zion’s being built more, we’re receiving more and more truth. Everybody scriptures and the pieces of truth that’s been scattered and just like that. And I don’t know if go into this today, but the earth has been broken and it’s been scattered and it is going to be returning.

00:28:27:14 – 00:28:49:08
Wendy
And so the the city of Enoch is a planet. And when it returns and the last ten tribes, they’re on a planet. So I think there is a chapter in the book that goes over that. So maybe we should save it. But that’s one that’s the some of the seen those patterns of the Lord’s Plan of Salvation. There.

00:28:49:14 – 00:29:23:08
Wendy
There’s a process of scattering as we come down here to the earth and we’re fallen. And and then there’s a process of gathering. And the Lord delivers us at each point. And that is a Passover that happens as we enter into covenant and we accept the Lord Jesus Christ as our deliverer. And that will cover us. And so the Passover here with the children of Israel is the perfect metaphor for every every age, every covenant that the Lord’s made in those ages.

00:29:23:13 – 00:29:40:06
Wendy
In this, he gives us a son. There’s a helps us turn us to the son of God and to remember Him and not the idols that have been built in apostasy because we’ve forgotten those covenants. So I that.

00:29:42:15 – 00:29:45:14
Cameron
Not to go on another tangent but with the original.

00:29:45:14 – 00:29:46:03
Wendy
Why not.

00:29:46:05 – 00:30:05:11
Cameron
And the festivals of the Lord, right. He says it will be a statute forever he’s seen. This is a pattern and I’m going to keep following this pattern. The Passover, like you said. I mean it it’s there and it’s and it’s going to play out and that’s what scriptures are for, to help show us the pattern and help us know what to expect.

00:30:05:17 – 00:30:06:03
Wendy
So I love.

00:30:09:09 – 00:30:43:13
Cameron
So diving in to Anthony stuff here and quoting Volkanovski heavily and stuff. We’ve got all of the phenomena of the exodus linked to two actual scientific explanations and and theories and things here. So Anthony, in this chapter goes through and just talks about these very bite sized because you could probably have a whole book or a year lecture series on any one of these.

00:30:43:13 – 00:31:12:18
Cameron
But we have things like the water turning the blood or the the pillar of Fire, etc.. So, so we’re going to dove through these and just kind of take a look at these different phenomena and what Cosmism has to offer as far of an explanation, or at least theories, working theories that we can go on and kind of look at how the Lord works by natural laws in order to point his children to to him.

00:31:13:17 – 00:31:32:13
Cameron
So the first is the water turned to blood. So when you can you like summarize like what about a a close encounter with Venus would give us our water turned into blood like how is that even possible? What does that come from? What can we theorize there?

00:31:33:04 – 00:32:09:07
Wendy
So with the when I was reading this, like, I didn’t realize that the casket has so much information, but as the comet approached the earth, tell first something like tell first, like that completely goes, I guess like tilt first. It’s approaching the earth. I mean, doesn’t that sound odd? Just coming right out of the gate. But it’s but with that then this fine, the fine red, the the dust of that would turn the the water red color and kill a lot of the if not everything, all of the organic matter there.

00:32:09:07 – 00:32:40:12
Wendy
And anybody that drank it would get sick. But it’s interesting that that Mars is just covered in that red dust. And anyway, so that, you know, informed some of the encounters that those those two planets had. But but yeah, it’s that very oxide like ammonite as it would be really interesting if we if we did experience that I’m not sure we don’t know exactly how it’s going to happen.

00:32:40:12 – 00:33:00:15
Wendy
And just because this happened in the exodus doesn’t mean that that’s what’s going to happen on our planet. We’ve got to make sure that process is understood as even that there’s patterns is doesn’t mean like it’s going to be like this check, this check. You know what I mean? It might not happen exactly in that order. It might not happen some of these might not happen at all.

00:33:00:15 – 00:33:07:22
Wendy
But anyway, that’s what I see when I when I’ve been studying the water Tribute to blood.

00:33:08:09 – 00:33:33:09
Cameron
Mm. I love that. So in you want to go into speculation territory like what have you theorized or, or what might be our close encounter or what’s coming at us? Is it going to be Venus or Mars or is it going to be something that we have yet to even think about, obviously, theory or whatever?

00:33:33:09 – 00:34:11:16
Wendy
But and and that’s something that every time I’ve tried to talk about it with friends, I felt the Lord shut me down. So, like, you don’t know. Yeah, you don’t know that. It’s just there’s they make, say, humble. I mean, we can ask the questions, but it’s good to know, like I have a feeling that it’s going to be just like Isaiah prophesies that there will be an anti with the anti Christ and the the powers of the dark destroying the wicked destroying the wicked first.

00:34:11:16 – 00:34:42:01
Wendy
And before we see before we see the the the Lord’s hand, I mean, the arm of the Lord is in a sense, it is the King of Babylon, right. But but then that that he will be destroyed by, by the true arm of the Lord. So I don’t know. I try to see things and I’m like, I’m not sure exactly how it’s going down, but I know that we can’t be.

00:34:42:01 – 00:35:01:22
Wendy
We need to understand the true light and the glory of the Lord and not be fooled by the counterfeit. Mm. Because there’s some that, that, that will say oh Christ is coming, you know, this is, this is who we should worship. Now it’s going to be a millennia of peace and prosperity under a rule of. I don’t know.

00:35:02:04 – 00:35:12:00
Wendy
I’ve got to be careful. Mm hmm. I love that. Right. So going on, let’s go back to the patterns of the exodus. Those are important to look at.

00:35:12:12 – 00:35:18:17
Cameron
Yeah. And so did you have anything else with water turning the blood and. And that if. No.

00:35:19:11 – 00:35:20:13
Wendy
No, let’s move on.

00:35:20:19 – 00:35:43:23
Cameron
Yeah. So with the the plague of vermin, I found this one very interesting because I don’t know, it’s just not something that I considered, but that this is kind of attributed to the heat generated by such a close planetary encounter. So an example of this is found in I don’t know, can sing. I don’t know how to pronounce that.

00:35:43:23 – 00:36:08:14
Cameron
But it’s a hot, electrically charged wind that blows in the desert, the area around desert villages during such winds, literally teams with vermin so that when there is an an uptake we’re heavy increase in heat, so does the vermin. And so having that explained in the exodus. Oh yeah, I guess that would happen.

00:36:08:14 – 00:36:37:04
Wendy
Yeah. And with an encounter that close with, with comets and throughout the eight throughout ages, comets have been been known to, to bring and destruction like they’ve been feared for for thousands of years. And we’re the only ones that haven’t had that fear. It hasn’t happened in our in our age as much so so anyway yeah I love that electrically charged with there would be a lot of like electrical charge.

00:36:37:12 – 00:36:57:10
Wendy
Oh, can we just take a little stab to it? Because I don’t know if we’re going to get to it, but just like in as they wander through the wilderness and all the the miracles that they saw there, they’re still experiencing Venus in the sky. Right. And so there’s going to be a lot of electrical charge. There’s going to be some biting snakes, biting, fiery flying serpents.

00:36:57:10 – 00:37:07:13
Wendy
Fiery flying serpents. Wow. Moses built a, you know, a snake on a pole. So anyway, I’m just saying. Yeah.

00:37:07:17 – 00:37:11:13
Cameron
That they were experiencing that all throughout wouldn’t their history their.

00:37:11:13 – 00:37:12:00
Wendy
Twisting.

00:37:12:20 – 00:37:33:09
Cameron
It the paradigm shift that I mean, I can’t even say that I know that much but the paradigm shifts that that was happening for me as I’ve been reading this like, oh wow, the Exodus story is so much different than I had in my head, but now it’s all starting to make sense. And every time that I go back and it, oh, that’s what’s happening.

00:37:33:09 – 00:37:43:14
Cameron
And I can’t even imagine being an Israelite going through all of that. Like the world is literally in upheaval and it’s kind of crazy.

00:37:44:19 – 00:37:48:02
Wendy
Yeah, I know. You know, lots and lots of miracles for sure.

00:37:49:03 – 00:38:21:19
Cameron
I love that. So the next that he explains here is the hail of stones. So as the comet moved closer, the earth found itself deeper into this this tail of the comet. And so the the fine dust becomes small dust. And eventually the the hail that we’re talking about. But an interesting note here is that Volokhonsky pointed out that the word Barraud in the original Old Testament text would have been more correctly translated as meteorites.

00:38:22:08 – 00:38:49:06
Cameron
He points out that according to Midrash and Talmudic sources, the hail of the exodus was hot, and that made all the sense in the world to me. Like, I don’t know, I had a hard time envisioning cold snow like hail whenever I read that, but having hot meteorites falling down wood would seem to fit the story better. So I really liked that.

00:38:49:06 – 00:38:50:06
Cameron
That explanation there.

00:38:51:00 – 00:39:00:14
Wendy
Yeah, it’s like Sodom and Gomorrah, you know, it’s those whenever you hear that from now on, I just. I see it the same way. Mm. Yeah.

00:39:01:10 – 00:39:08:12
Cameron
So yeah. Walk us through like the petroleum because this one I found so interesting.

00:39:08:12 – 00:39:41:18
Wendy
So yeah, we always think, oh, that’s from the dinosaurs, you know. Yeah, well either there’s a Yeah it can be created a lot of carbon based, you know in our old fossil fuels down there. But yeah, it’s in the heavens too. And if it’s on a plant, a comet, there’s flying through and it’s falling on us, it’s going to be it’s going to be hot and it’s going to be sticky and lots of lots of hydrocarbons in there, too, you know.

00:39:41:19 – 00:39:48:11
Wendy
Interesting. We’ll come up on that soon, but that would be very destructive for sure.

00:39:49:08 – 00:39:57:08
Cameron
Yeah. Can you imagine as that’s falling down and and lighting and burning like, oh, my God, that’s like science fiction to the max. Yeah.

00:39:58:16 – 00:40:03:12
Wendy
Yeah, totally. Right. But raining fire from heaven. Yeah. Literally.

00:40:04:20 – 00:40:34:16
Cameron
Can only imagine. And then the next section is about the earthquake. So as we do have a close encounter that the each of the planets are seized in the gravitational grip of the other and, and kind of pulling at each other, the force, the momentum, the inertia that is adjusting the the earth’s crust and it’s reacting violently. I’m just kind of like paraphrasing throughout this, this whole thing.

00:40:36:12 – 00:41:03:04
Wendy
And just to for your listeners, too, on this, I mean, it’s good theories and it’s day, but if those have even changed just because cosmology is is changing so fast right now, it’s it’s amazing. But there’s so much more electromagnetism going here. We plasma physics more so than gravity that’s causing these things to say.

00:41:03:04 – 00:41:07:15
Cameron
Yeah, interesting. I love it. Yeah. Because I’m just new to this and stuff. So I know.

00:41:07:15 – 00:41:08:15
Wendy
I know that’s I’m like.

00:41:08:16 – 00:41:13:11
Cameron
I’m that you’re you’re bringing up those things. I’m like, ooh, okay. So that one needs an update.

00:41:13:11 – 00:41:33:07
Wendy
It’s like, you know, you’re updating. We’re going to like we have to remodel our houses once in a while. They get a little old something news then embedded in, you know, but you know, it’s like, yeah, it’s good to read these reads and and to glean from the truth of it. But staying current is, is also good on the science.

00:41:33:07 – 00:41:36:05
Wendy
I love it. Um.

00:41:37:14 – 00:41:51:08
Cameron
And so do you agree with that second paragraph there where it’s talking about the first born translation and things does that kind of with the, the current context and paradigm that that people are having.

00:41:51:19 – 00:42:17:04
Wendy
Like, you know, they built their houses on a higher level know as though and so the earthquake would have more power I could see that. But I almost feel like the author here and maybe even bellicosity Larson are kind of trying to stretch the facts to fit the MM like like fit the story which is is fine to do.

00:42:17:04 – 00:42:45:21
Wendy
And sometimes we do that either way. We all have our biases, we all have we’re coming from, from a paradigm, right? And we’re trying to find things to fit in there. And that’s great. But there is definitely I feel that we need to be careful when we’re looking at evidence as in the science here, instead of drawing those conclusion that this is what must have happened, there’s there’s a spiritual element there that is the firstborn for me of the like literally the firstborn.

00:42:46:11 – 00:43:23:10
Wendy
And can we can we pinpoint that with with electric universe theory or plasma or science or whatever? I don’t think so. I don’t think we know that science yet. Maybe it’s in the DNA, you know, the firstborn. Maybe it’s because of their calling on this earth as the firstborn. What is the first one? I don’t know. I’m just saying, how do we know what that marker is and how the Lord sent his angel of, you know, to to that just but just saying no to like in the scriptures, angel can be used as a keyword to denote planets.

00:43:23:17 – 00:43:46:13
Wendy
So it was for me when it’s talking about this great plague of taking the the firstborn is this it’s that’s what you’re talking about, right? This one. So so yeah, I, I definitely want to keep the Lord’s power involved in this, that it’s there’s something here we still don’t understand. For me.

00:43:46:19 – 00:43:51:24
Cameron
Yeah, when I read it, I was like, I’m just going to put that one on a shelf. I don’t understand what we’re talking about.

00:43:51:24 – 00:43:54:04
Wendy
So yeah, I think they’re stretching it there.

00:43:55:04 – 00:44:20:24
Cameron
But yeah, and so the next section is about the darkness. So, you know, I can only imagine with all of these other things happening why there’s so much darkness. He talks about the dust and debris from the actual tail of the comet. In addition, the volcano ash from from the earthquake and volcanic activity, etc., he says all this serve to make the air so thick that people could scarcely breathe.

00:44:21:06 – 00:44:49:06
Cameron
Rabbinical sources explain that 49 out of every 50 Israelites perished in the plague of darkness, which I had never considered before. But I are some some astronomical numbers there. But yeah, having prolonged days and nights and imagining what the whole earth is, is experiencing this during all of this, not just the Israelites, but but everywhere.

00:44:49:06 – 00:44:57:00
Wendy
Yeah. Reminds me of the Book of Mormon. We’ll get to that one next week, too. Mm hmm.

00:44:58:05 – 00:45:35:07
Cameron
Yeah. And so the next here that the tackle is the collapsed sky. And so looking at low, slow, drifting clouds, according to midrash sources, the Israelites wandered for years without seeing the sun. They saw the sun and moon. Clearly, for the first time since leaving Egypt only at the end of their wandering. So like, can you imagine what it would be like to not see the sun four or like, I mean, we’re just so used to our, our current experience, right?

00:45:35:07 – 00:45:44:07
Cameron
And what’s happening to them like, wow, I can’t even imagine living that way for, for that long for an extended period of time.

00:45:45:06 – 00:45:49:08
Wendy
Yeah.

00:45:49:08 – 00:45:59:22
Cameron
So what did you pull out of the heated bodies section? Because that was another one that was like, I don’t know, it’s kind of over my head, but yes.

00:46:00:21 – 00:46:47:19
Wendy
So yeah, I mean, if there’s if the earth with that decreased, you know, different tilts or the poles are shifting and the rotation is disrupted. And so some of the the people on the earth experienced great heat and and so the, you know, the surface of the earth was a whole lot of convection going on there. And so, yeah, I sorry, I just had to let my brain just shut off for a second, but so so yeah, with the moon specifically, I kind of it’s an interesting theory about how the moon would would turn red because of how much heat that it had.

00:46:48:15 – 00:47:13:08
Wendy
Part of me is like maybe what if it was? But it was also covered with red dust, too. Or what if, you know, the the air is so infiltrated with just part particulate that we can’t see it very well and it turns red? Or what if we’re in a constant? Well, I guess that would only be on one side of the earth, but you know, and a blood moon or whatever.

00:47:13:13 – 00:47:43:20
Wendy
I don’t know. I think it’s it is interesting, but that that maybe that could happen, that moon would turn red because of how hot it is. But I definitely believe that there was some surfaces on the earth that were hotter than than others because of that change in the Earth’s rotation tilt and pulse. So yeah, but what it says about the gravitational influence of the comet pulled the interior of the earth, the molten car towards the crust.

00:47:44:04 – 00:48:08:12
Wendy
This caused the surface, earth’s surface to become hot. Yeah, maybe. But I. I’m even wondering if the Earth’s core is molten. As I know I’m on a weird theory. Sometimes. I’ve been studying some of the the universal models, and they believe that the interior of the earth is is water based, that we’re more of a water based planet anyway.

00:48:08:12 – 00:48:27:20
Wendy
So I’m like, Yeah, that’s possible. But I feel like you’re still pulling from theories that we have that is like, Well, let’s leave some room for error there. Possibly. Mm hmm. All right. You asked to have me on. I’m a I’m not very helpful covering that answer.

00:48:27:22 – 00:48:44:23
Cameron
Oh, you’re so helpful because, like, as I’m going through this, I’m like, I don’t have any scientist, like, I. I mean, like, I got straight A’s, but, like, I’m not that smart when it comes to sciences or anything like that, or especially with any of these theories and advances that we’ve had since then or so. Yeah.

00:48:45:09 – 00:49:06:11
Wendy
Yeah. I mean, I don’t mind. I would like for the big bold cold blanket on all but I there’s so much truth here but you just, you know, keep keep in mind the little things that that might author might be, you know, pulling from different threads that that we can still be open for enlightenment on.

00:49:06:11 – 00:49:49:08
Cameron
And with that we are going to segment this episode in half, come back next week as we continue our discussion with the parting of the sea, the food from God, the manner of the orphanages, etc. as we continue our discussion on Chapter three in the Exodus.

00;00;00;12 – 00;00;25;29
Cameron
Hi. And welcome to all you likeminded nerds. Wendy and I just want to express our gratitude for all your lovely encouragement and ideas as we start discussing Cosmism and planetary close encounters as it relates to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I’m completely new to all of these ideas and theories, whereas Wendy has a good couple of years on me, but together we hope to spark conversation and serve as a guidepost to greater resources as we all prepare for the second coming.

00;00;26;21 – 00;00;43;13
Cameron
In these discussions, we are starting by having a book discussion of Anthony Larson’s trilogy. These three books give a great primer to Villa Cox’s paradigm shifts. We are so excited that you are interested and willing to go on this journey with us. And with that, let’s jump into today’s episode.

00;00;44;14 – 00;00;47;06
Wendy
Okay. Continuing.

00;00;48;03 – 00;01;15;19
Cameron
So it talks about the mighty wind. You know, it’s just a short little sentence here. But hurricanes have incredible strength and velocity in down that were happening. The walls of water, I think is a very interesting one, he says. In the Villa Kosky scenario. These walls of water were not as close as Sicily. D.M. portrayed them in his his film epoch, but were far more awesome.

00;01;15;29 – 00;01;41;11
Cameron
Tides created by the gravitational pull of the comet would have been thousands of feet high. The Israelites would have seen them far beyond the horizon. And it’s like, Holy cow, I can’t even imagine. To be an Israelite, you know, like they’re. They’re fleeing from the Egyptians, confronted with this water. And not only is he parting the waves, but I mean, this is like massive.

00;01;41;19 – 00;02;01;23
Cameron
You’re looking at it in this context, like, whoa, what just happened? And with the the mighty wind that is being kicked up that the sea bed lay before them uncovered and dried by the wind, like makes a lot of sense now that you can have kind of that that image in your mind kind of thing.

00;02;02;06 – 00;02;52;14
Wendy
Yeah. And then kind of take that image and kind of place that filter over Joshua and then cross and crossing the Jordan River similar. Not I don’t think it was as big definitely but they crossed over on dry ground and and but the passing through that you know with the Passover of the Lord and crossing through the waters is very I don’t know if we can talk about that right now, but the symbolism of of entering in a twin covenant there that were being buried and then rise again, you know, with our baptism covenants and and all our covenants, really, that that there’s a cutting of the covenant there with we we acknowledge our our

00;02;53;15 – 00;03;23;21
Wendy
our utter need for for the Lord and that we are we are nothing without him. And then we we the the cutting of the covenant with, you know, those water spreading like that and and that mighty wind, too. There’s so much symbolism with wind and the power of God and and the scriptures. Whenever you see wind, it’s it’s there’s it’s always connected with either judgment or the Lord blessing his people.

00;03;23;21 – 00;03;48;20
Wendy
There’s a, there’s a blessing or a curse things. Right. And they pass through and they were delivered because of the covenant and brought out of captivity, which is what we are we’re here on. And this this pattern repeats throughout Scripture, throughout every age. Even as we are, we we descend or or even ascend. Hopefully we’ll be doing that ascent soon.

00;03;48;29 – 00;04;20;20
Wendy
But there’s there’s that. So that bond that we have with Christ that that brings either blessings or cursing. And so before in the covenant and your righteous then the the that is, I mean it’s not temple stuff, but it’s like, you know, you’ve heard of the oh I don’t know if this is the best place to bring it up, but the plumb line, you know, the plumb line is, is a is an important part of covenants.

00;04;20;21 – 00;04;41;29
Wendy
If you go look that up and look at the symbols associated with that, it’s about judgment and where are we in that? Are we are we going to when when the Lord puts down his plumb line, which actually has to happen in the heavens, are are we on the side of the Lord and are we going to be blessed?

00;04;41;29 – 00;05;11;22
Wendy
And so this planet, Venus is, is an arc archetype, but it’s a really a messenger from the Lord as a an angel coming down to administer covenants to a people. Right. You think of temple covenants and it’s and so it’s, it’s on my computer just when I can. But anyway, sorry, I’m going on, on a huge tangent there, but when I see these things I see it’s so much bigger than just these scientific things.

00;05;11;22 – 00;05;39;21
Wendy
And I want people to kind of open their minds to like, yeah, there’s definitely a temporal aspect because we need that. We need to see the Lord coming to us in a physical electoral plasma like revelation, like can we literally become a satellite to a high king? Like we are becoming temples and our bodies. And to him, like, can we bring the covenants of God to other people and and to our ancestors and whatnot?

00;05;39;21 – 00;06;00;20
Wendy
But it’s it’s we have to go through another Passover and can we pray that those things are going to be brought about for us, the blessings for us and our families and those that are in the covenant that and that we can be delivered from evil and dark and that we can trust that the Lord will take care of that part of the cursing.

00;06;00;20 – 00;06;26;00
Wendy
Not that we want to curse anybody, but people have to to get the there’s there’s consequences anyway you can I’m going off of so so I don’t know where we were at but that the walls of water I just I love that and I think of the prophecies of how the the days of in the day of the Lord, we’re going to see such more and much more greater miracles than we than we’ve ever seen on the Earth.

00;06;26;00 – 00;06;34;09
Wendy
Greater than than the parting of the Red Sea right. So that’s exciting. And like President Nelson said, we have so much to look forward to. I love.

00;06;34;09 – 00;07;04;28
Cameron
It. Yeah. When you were talking about the the water splitting and walking through the covenant kind of a thing, it reminded me of Abraham story right before he is taken up to receive the the vision of all the Lord lays out a a process or recipe, I guess you could say, of lots of different sacrificial animals. And he has to to splay them and walk through them in order to to receive and to ascend.

00;07;05;06 – 00;07;36;24
Cameron
And it was just interesting how the Israelites walking through the the two parted the two parts and how Abraham walks through the two parts. And many national covenants are portrayed that same way. A very interesting I love them. So the next part that it talks about is the releasing of the waters, which I think is interesting because I, I don’t know, I never knew that there could be an explanation for that.

00;07;36;24 – 00;08;07;12
Cameron
But it talks about that as the last of the Israelites reached the other side, there was a giant spark, so similar to a lightning bolt seen in a thunderstorm, yet much greater arc between the earth and the comet. And this served to lessen the attraction of the comet on the waters of the earth. And it released the comets grip of the waters and allowed those to go back in and flood over the Egyptians, etc..

00;08;08;00 – 00;08;24;08
Cameron
So I found that very interesting that, you know, it’s kind of playing the movie out in my mind right there. They’re going through This is crazy. And then there’s a lightning bolt or a spark that arcs between the two and releases the water like I want to see that movie. I want to see that portrayed.

00;08;25;10 – 00;08;30;00
Wendy
Yeah. Oh, cool. And I would totally I could see that happening.

00;08;30;15 – 00;08;31;03
Cameron
Uh huh, yeah.

00;08;31;03 – 00;08;32;04
Wendy
And the cool.

00;08;32;04 – 00;08;45;22
Cameron
I mean, amazing. Um, so take us through it like the pillar of fire and, and smoke here because I found this one super intriguing kind of a, a paradigm shift for me.

00;08;45;22 – 00;09;28;28
Wendy
Mm. Yes. You know, I didn’t, I didn’t remember after reading Volokhonsky about the, the, what do you call it, the collapsed sky with all the it’s just cloudy. And I was like, Oh yeah, that would totally make sense. So this is really good for me to read after the fact to kind of even piece together all this anyway and to remember it’s been a while since I read Volokhonsky, but okay, so the, the, the head is is the and often portrayed throughout different, different ages and different cultures as that’s the the God of light.

00;09;28;28 – 00;09;58;05
Wendy
You know, there’s the as the light of the Lord is so bright and the tail often look like that serpent and there’s that like, electrical phenomenon too. Um, but we’re going to get into that later. But, but yeah, it would look like, I guess it definitely could look like, like a pillar of fire in the sky because of the, the tail and the comet through the clouds there.

00;09;58;15 – 00;10;22;08
Wendy
I think that that is a really interesting image. I like that. And of course, the pillar of Fire is very symbolic of covenants and them and would follow them. And I like how they talked about how, you know, maybe how that was over for he put forth three different no just two different possibilities of why it was in front of them and then behind them.

00;10;22;22 – 00;10;49;21
Wendy
But I love that’s one of my favorite parts in Scripture and how the Lord told them to be still, you know, and see the salvation of the Lord and and seeing trying to imagine that in the sky of him actually being temporarily there. Because a lot of times I feel like spiritually he’ll help me get through it. But now he’s literally there’s he’s really here, you know what I mean?

00;10;49;29 – 00;11;02;05
Wendy
Yeah. And and even more so in the coming days, like, we will see the temporal and the hand of the Lord, literally, as well as spiritually. Mm. Gives me hope.

00;11;02;24 – 00;11;27;10
Cameron
I love that. So, like, this is still something that I’m not totally envisioning in my head, but like, what does the the pillar or column of light look like in the kind of collapsed sky or in this kind of scenario here? Are we talking like like a pillar of light, like the first vision kind of thing? Just just a simple pillar of light.

00;11;27;10 – 00;11;32;24
Cameron
Are we talking a kind of a triangular.

00;11;35;18 – 00;11;36;17
Wendy
Kind of like a mountain.

00;11;37;14 – 00;11;38;24
Cameron
The mountain of the Lord kind of a thing.

00;11;39;17 – 00;12;06;09
Wendy
And maybe it could be either one. That’s a really good point. But it seems like with Pillar, it probably straight because pillar to me it’s it’s very symbolic of of the way and the straight and narrow path and the and being inside those bounds of that covenant, being connected to the Lord like yoked to the Lord anyway. So there’s, there’s a lot of symbolism there with.

00;12;07;15 – 00;12;40;16
Wendy
So I think it was just a pillar for me. I just, I see just the pillar and, and that I guess with the clouds. But if it’s this very cloudy sky, it’s diffused. And maybe they it’s almost in a sense, veiled from them, you know. Yeah. But they still they knew. I mean they’ve had all these experiences with the comet and so, so yeah, it’s, I’m not sure how big it was or whether it was vertical or horizontal, you know what I mean.

00;12;40;16 – 00;13;09;16
Wendy
I don’t, I don’t know. But but it seems like in this hypothesis that it’s veiled somehow. That’s interesting. You think about, you know, with the Lord coming down onto the Mt. Sinai and the people being afraid of of coming into his presence and and hearing the sound and the, you know, seeing all the thunder and the lightning shaking and almost saying, well, we’ll worship you.

00;13;09;16 – 00;13;37;18
Wendy
And but we we don’t want to become a part of you. And we don’t want to, you know what I mean? That’s yeah, it’s something so, like, foreign to them. They don’t want to change. And so with with the veil there, I think it was a mercy and it makes it feels good to me to think of that as still if seeing that pillar of fire of the cloud by day in the pillar, fire by night.

00;13;37;18 – 00;14;04;20
Wendy
So maybe, maybe it was really seen mostly very well at night and not so well during the day because it was diffuse, just like we can’t see, you know, the stars at all and the sun and the moon as well as as we can at night, you know what I mean? So but yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s feels good to think about and I, I try to see if, you know, if there’s something like that that helps me bring me closer to Christ.

00;14;04;20 – 00;14;12;09
Wendy
And it’s like, that seems like a good seed. Then I, I ponder on that more. That’s how I, I’m just in my process. I love it.

00;14;12;17 – 00;14;12;28
Cameron
Yeah.

00;14;13;10 – 00;14;14;06
Wendy
Yeah.

00;14;14;06 – 00;14;37;02
Cameron
And so the next section here, the Battle in the Sky is the second one that I was like, I want a movie of this because it toward the end here, it says that this battle in the sky is almost a universal theme in literature of cultures around the world. So impressed the witnesses that it was recorded by ancient peoples in their myths, monuments, records and rituals.

00;14;37;20 – 00;15;04;14
Cameron
And so anyway, this is never something that I’ve heard. It’s not like I really study mythology or anything I used to when I was a kid. I used to think that Greek mythology was so cool, but I have long since moved away from that. But interesting looking at this specific scenario here. So as the comet passed the earth, a display of cosmic proportions arrayed itself before all mankind.

00;15;04;26 – 00;15;27;19
Cameron
The comet was then close enough that its brightness broke through the clouds and its head and tail appeared to be separate entities. The head was a light God, the tell a snake or a serpent. And so we have bolts of lightning leaping between the head and the tail of the comet, causing the tail to move or writhe as a snake.

00;15;28;00 – 00;15;54;21
Cameron
The God was doing battle with the serpent and the conflict was accompanied by great meteorite showers pelting the earth as the comet moved away, eventually summarizing this account here that eventually goes beyond the horizon and the God or the light God, the head of the comet is defeating the serpent. So it’s doing battle with and just kind of looking.

00;15;55;00 – 00;16;26;22
Cameron
I was Googling some different mythologies around, you know, this great battle, but they all are painting a very similar picture where Zuse or any of the the main gods are doing battle and I can’t even imagine what it must have been like to be fleeing the Egyptians, walking through the water or on dry land through the Red Sea there, and then watching this battle in the sky like.

00;16;27;17 – 00;16;28;06
Wendy
What.

00;16;28;06 – 00;16;50;04
Cameron
Is happening to our earth? Like, are we just like are we going to make it out of this? Like, I can’t even imagine having anything even similar plane out in our skies and me not wanting to go, okay, I’m just going to go hide and hopefully repent because I’m going to die because this is too much. But anyway.

00;16;50;12 – 00;16;52;20
Wendy
I hide in caves. Yeah, right.

00;16;52;25 – 00;17;01;15
Cameron
Yeah, exactly. Let’s just go hide from this because there’s literally this is way bigger than we can even fathom.

00;17;01;15 – 00;17;36;10
Wendy
Yeah. There’s this is where there’s so much evidence. And part of me wishes they would have started with this as the beginning thesis to why, why Venus plays such a big role in the Exodus. And because there’s so much worldwide about seeing Venus and even worshiping Venus. And yeah, unfortunately it became that. But that that battle in the sky with a leviathan, you know, the the dragon.

00;17;37;07 – 00;18;08;21
Wendy
Yeah. In is in every culture. And they saw it in the heavens and it was so, it was so impactful. We still remember it. There’s almost like a the one of the thunderbolt theories when they’ve got some psychoanalytic stuff on there about that of they got lots of different science but just how there’s this, this almost like PTSD trauma in our DNA that that has this you know, we’re we’re this worry about the apocalypse, you know what I mean?

00;18;08;21 – 00;18;37;18
Wendy
Because we experienced it many times. And so we, you know, we go to the theaters to almost, like, relive it and not, you know, it’s almost like releasing some of that PTSD in a sense. Anyway. So they’ve got this theory and Bill Cosby went into it to Disney about that, how that that worldwide, worldwide experience is still in our psyche in a sense.

00;18;37;22 – 00;18;39;08
Wendy
So that was interesting.

00;18;40;13 – 00;18;46;03
Cameron
So intriguing to to think about that because I mean, that’s just not something that we talk about in Sunday school.

00;18;47;03 – 00;18;48;08
Wendy
Yeah. Oh.

00;18;48;21 – 00;19;10;04
Cameron
Interesting. And how that plays in. And and like you said, we’re always trying to bring this back to the gospel, to Christ and everything. We see many different allusions and things to it in Scripture, like you said, Leviathan, Dragon, fighting the serpent kind of a thing. We even have it in in our endowment and it is a universal theme.

00;19;10;04 – 00;19;38;09
Cameron
The Lord works in patterns and it’s to help us to release that PTSD to to work in faith and not fear like that. Things are going to play out again. But those that fear men’s hearts will fill them in the last days. And we have that in many different contexts, in many different senses, I think. But like, like I said a second ago, like my first reaction would be like, okay, well, it’s over, let’s just go hide kind of a thing.

00;19;38;18 – 00;19;49;16
Cameron
But actually working with it and like the Lord was leading the people following the Lord, even amidst utter seeming chaos kind of.

00;19;50;07 – 00;20;08;29
Wendy
And being able to be like, Thank you, Lord, for for this miracle, right? Can we be in gratitude for to that? And like my father, where would you like me to go? Well, where do you want me to be during you know, who who needs me? You know what I mean? How can we be agents of action and having faith?

00;20;09;06 – 00;20;34;14
Wendy
Which is action in a in a Lord that has these characteristics and attributes of a God of glory and light? And can we have faith that our you know, I’m kind of building off your last book study, right? The the lectures on faith of if we can have that correct idea and know that our path is in alignment to where she wants us, then we can have faith in him.

00;20;34;14 – 00;21;00;02
Wendy
And then our path is his path, you know, I mean, and then we’re not in fear because we know we are of the covenant and we are within those bounds and we will path we. Yes, he will pass over the destroying age. Angel will pass over us that we are saved because of Jesus Christ and His blood that has cleansed our garments, that we have the wedding garment on, that we are of the covenant and are safe and shielded by him.

00;21;00;16 – 00;21;18;25
Wendy
Now we will experience some catastrophes. We are we have to be meek enough to be like, there’s still something I need to learn and I need to maybe it’s that I need to learn how to access that power. Now, there’s there’s actually going to be more electrical power on the earth at that time, though. And it’s not here yet.

00;21;18;25 – 00;21;41;04
Wendy
We need to pray it here. We need to be able to do those miracles. But when there’s more of that, whatever electrical plasma of glory of God, that’s now here, those miracles are going to be much more like we’re going to be able to access them better. Does that make sense? Like that, that the speed barrier has been broken?

00;21;41;04 – 00;21;49;13
Wendy
You know what it means? Like, I don’t know how to say, are we? We’re already kind of past the hardest part. So anyway.

00;21;50;01 – 00;22;34;09
Cameron
I love it. So it seems like a tangent, but I think at times it but when President Irene in his conference talks and in some other different talks that he gives about the Teton Dam break and the flood and everything that happened there, how we even though we didn’t see it coming or were able to prevent it or anything like that, like the catastrophe still happened, but yet we had the proper responses because of what the Lord had helped us prepare with food storage and just being able to like jump in and actually do our work and how that applies to an end time scenario.

00;22;34;09 – 00;22;58;29
Cameron
Like some of these things we’re it’s going to be totally new. Yes, it does follow patterns, but there’s going to be some unexpected things that we’re just like, whoa, didn’t see it playing out like that. But I do know what to do. I know what my mission is, and I know that we follow the Lord. We know all of the things, the I guess the emergency plan to put in place at such a given time.

00;22;59;29 – 00;23;09;22
Cameron
So I think that that’s very interesting how the Lord is constantly preparing us and yeah, anyway, yeah, he is.

00;23;09;29 – 00;23;15;11
Wendy
He’s he’s got us. He’s got us. We can trust him. Yeah, sure.

00;23;15;11 – 00;23;36;08
Cameron
So this next section talks about the food from God. Now, this one, I think, was probably like my favorite of the whole thing because it was just something that I never considered before. But like all cool. So he says, no matter what it’s called manna, ambrosia, heavenly bread, food of the morning do honey from the clouds Amiright or great do.

00;23;37;01 – 00;24;03;28
Cameron
I didn’t know that there were so many names for it. I’ve just always called it men. But taking it and saying it was what the people of the world eight four years after the destruction were it not for the honey flavored bread like stuff which precipitated from the earth saturated atmosphere, men and animal alike would have perished. And so, I don’t know, have you had some scientific background in your.

00;24;04;16 – 00;24;05;29
Wendy
You know, this is weird.

00;24;07;16 – 00;24;09;19
Cameron
What you haven’t made manna in a lab but.

00;24;11;01 – 00;24;32;09
Wendy
You’re really cool though, to have to perform that experiment in the laboratory. But it’s the atmosphere is so complex. I was just teaching it, you know, and weather and my students and there’s so many I’m like I’m supposed to teach us to eighth graders. This is like science, you know, there’s tons of physics, there’s a ton of chemistry.

00;24;33;29 – 00;24;56;21
Wendy
But yeah, it’s so cool to think of. And it was documented like all over the world that there was this like all those names and that it just precipitated out of the air and it fed man and beast and what a what a blessing from the Lord. You know, the his miracles are his ways are not ways he can he can do this.

00;24;57;04 – 00;25;39;15
Wendy
You know, it’s the the hydrocarbon oben, you know, using the what we talked about before about the petroleum. I know, you know, but I’m just I think drawing it back to that concept of the if it’s in the atmosphere and from this the planet and there’s microbes in the air, they’re theorizing that this this is their the theory that Volokhonsky has is that there must have been microbes in the air that then changed in like a, you know, chemical process there to to it becoming nutritious, sweet and like, what is it?

00;25;39;15 – 00;26;02;14
Wendy
What does that amount of means? Right. What is it. Yeah, but but for 40 or 40 years. Right. Yeah. That’s a long time that Zenas was in and having this interaction with the earth. But I mean, that’s what angels do for us. Then God sends when we think of an angels, it’s a person, but it’s also it can be a planet as well.

00;26;03;06 – 00;26;04;28
Wendy
Administering a ministering planet.

00;26;06;01 – 00;26;32;07
Cameron
I love it so this little side note that he has here, I find very interesting because I didn’t know this at all. But it says in light of this idea, it’s interesting to note that since 1971, protein has been manufactured from petroleum in Britain and France and mixed with other ingredients to make a highly nutritious animal feed. The technology exists for producing edible protein and fats directly from petroleum.

00;26;32;25 – 00;26;33;12
Cameron
I’m like.

00;26;33;12 – 00;26;34;14
Wendy
Okay, so cool. Right?

00;26;35;22 – 00;26;50;02
Cameron
And I think petroleum, I think of like gas, like fuel in our car kind of thing. And I’m like, Oh, is that sweet and edible and, and even remotely associated with manner. But, but anyway, this the section was just opening up a whole new paradigm shift for me.

00;26;50;20 – 00;26;59;08
Wendy
Yeah, so cool. But they didn’t say there that the edible protein was sweet. I doubt they made it very sweet. Exactly. So instead.

00;27;00;14 – 00;27;02;15
Cameron
Those animals are living rich food.

00;27;03;13 – 00;27;13;13
Wendy
Like give it to the animals and if they’re starving, they’ll eat it. I think God was very kind of unhealthy, prepared it so that at least it was sweet. I think that’s really great.

00;27;13;29 – 00;27;36;24
Cameron
Exactly. And so the last paragraph there, it says, As this precipitate the Israelites manna fell on water, an unusual thing happened. The water became sweet to the taste and turned creamy white color. Hence the phrase A land flowing with milk and honey was not so much poetic as a statement of fact. And I was like, Now that one light blue, my, my brain when I first heard it.

00;27;36;24 – 00;27;53;10
Cameron
Mike You kidding me? Like, Oh, that makes a lot of sense. And just interesting parallel to, to some of the prophecies that say that, that he will lead us to a land flowing with milk and honey like. Hmm. Interesting.

00;27;54;07 – 00;28;12;27
Wendy
Yeah. They they use metaphors of things that we would understand, right? They understand that prophecy because it referred to this, and they do it all the time throughout scripture. They’re referring to these miracles. And we simply we need to see that it’s exciting, right, to see that it’s really fun.

00;28;13;18 – 00;28;30;17
Cameron
I thought so walk us through the theory in this section here, because I found this one very interesting, but yet at the same time, I’m like, whoa, what are the implications here of the more, I guess, scientific approach to to the affinity with Mount Sinai?

00;28;31;08 – 00;29;03;14
Wendy
Yeah. So the the sound when with trumpets and it’s, you know, you think of revelation, you know, on the trumpet sounding, it could be that there is, there’s a, it’s an electric. Oh sorry. There’s plus there’s plasma interactions between different electro magnetic bodies or they’re coming close to us. We’re feeling that I’m not sure exactly what is what what it creates it.

00;29;03;23 – 00;29;27;27
Wendy
But their sound and their sound and creation, their sound and law giving, like when we think of our interactions with the Lord, it’s because of revelation, right? And there’s actually we’re receiving the Word of God into our bodies. It it changes us the bless the the water and the bread. And it’s actually been changed. You know, and we partake of it.

00;29;29;01 – 00;30;00;15
Wendy
And so we’re taking of the Lord and partaking of him in so many different ways there. And so anyway, going back to Theosophy and and hearing actually hearing his name now I’m not as good at Hebrew as you are, so please say it in. How is he? All right. You always is spelled j h w h. They don’t use the don’t they don’t even spell it do they.

00;30;01;06 – 00;30;02;00
Wendy
Or they don’t just use.

00;30;02;00 – 00;30;18;25
Cameron
The now the the your have of he, but nobody necessarily knows how it’s supposed to sound because of the intonations and catcalls or whatever. So I mean, it’s always written, but they but no one ever speaks it because it’s so sacred kind of a thing.

00;30;18;25 – 00;30;54;27
Wendy
And isn’t that interesting just in that sentence, a couple of sentences. CAMERON It’s it’s the sound is sacred. His name is sacred, you know, and confess which they there’s talk about, you know, his names like there’s power in just for me just saying his name and it might not even be the best like version of his understanding this true name and being able to speak with him, you know, in a know his name.

00;30;54;27 – 00;31;27;03
Wendy
Yeah. I mean, there’s so much implications there about names and it’s about it’s there’s a sound, there’s a vibration, there’s frequency, there’s light that actually helps us ascend. Right. And and so with this law giving at the Mt. Sinai and the Lord inviting them into his presence. But, you know, it’s it’s hard for people if they’re being invited and they’re like, this is fearful for me.

00;31;27;12 – 00;31;53;04
Wendy
I can’t go there, then that’s what they see. They they see it as a fearful experience and, and so and so, you know, people that saw, you know, Venus in the sky and, you know, this battle going on and whatnot, are they are they seeing the Lord in it or are they worship? Are they, you know, worshiping Venus with animal sacrifices?

00;31;53;04 – 00;32;17;02
Wendy
Right. I’m just kind of dropping back to that. Or they they seeing, you know, these interactions between planets and what it looks like and and things other things going. Are they you know, the the fertility cults that that’s how they worship their gods because that’s what they’re coming at it from their feeling their mere their experience is mirrored from what they see.

00;32;17;10 – 00;32;42;28
Wendy
The Lord mirrors that back to them. And I don’t know if that’s the best way to say it, but if we can come to it and this experience as an a temple experience and be able to to see the Lord as He is and and, you know, they all prophets, when they talk about coming into the presence of the Lord, they feel very inadequate.

00;32;42;28 – 00;33;15;11
Wendy
But that’s okay because we are. But the Lord died for us. So that we can be by His side, so that we can. And they are all that he has because it’s it’s like we are his, you know, we are his and he is perfect. So we don’t have to be. So anyway, I just so I am getting all emotional because I just I adore him and I adore my covenant with him and I really want to experience it.

00;33;15;22 – 00;33;27;29
Wendy
I really want to experience that. And can we get to that place where we’re anticipating it and praying him here instead of being worried about him coming? You know what I mean? Yeah. So I’m excited.

00;33;28;21 – 00;33;32;02
Cameron
So I know it’s exciting stuff.

00;33;32;20 – 00;33;34;09
Wendy
Mm.

00;33;34;09 – 00;34;18;08
Cameron
But yeah, as it’s referencing here, different cultures around the world heard this. It wasn’t just out at the Sinai, but that it’s all some kind of variation of this, this y or this Yahoo! Yahoo way, Yahoo! So many different intonations of it, but yet very similar. And pointing out the same kind of a thing. And if it is this what he he talks about here, magnetic oscillations possibly becoming audible or or whatever it you’re like, how do you translate that into your spoken language?

00;34;18;12 – 00;34;20;23
Cameron
You do the best you can, but it’s so sacred.

00;34;21;06 – 00;34;21;24
Wendy
And you.

00;34;21;26 – 00;34;49;00
Cameron
Can only be felt. And, you know, Book of Mormon tie ins there where they are hearing the voice three times, not understanding and then all of the feels that they’re going through at Christ, coming to them and ministering to them personally. But we have many different tie ins, you know, with the Kirtland Temple dedication, the voice of many waters.

00;34;49;00 – 00;35;28;09
Cameron
It kind of helped me understand why people are describing it in different ways that, oh, it might not necessarily be like a spoken human interaction kind of a thing. Like, why aren’t you understanding the language? But, but the, the actual energy, the vibrations that are coming from this, that we’re just doing the best we can do to describe what’s happening, what we’re feeling, but yet it’s not something that can be conveyed in that way kind of thing, you know, I just love that.

00;35;28;09 – 00;35;58;09
Cameron
So he gives kind of a summary of everything that we’ve talked about so far and then kind of points us forward to a future and things about other planetary encounters. So this isn’t just constrained to Venus, but as Venus is kind of on this warpath, I should say that it interacts with Mars and throws it off, and Mars comes and interacts with the Earth at points as well.

00;35;58;21 – 00;36;33;02
Cameron
And anyway, there’s it’s so much different than the sky we have today and what we’re doing with with what was it, the uniform materialism or gradualism approach. But having planets have encounters closer than than our current orbits and things. So what kind of takeaways or are things? Where were you pulling out from, from this section that you found interesting?

00;36;33;02 – 00;36;46;11
Wendy
Honestly, I was like thinking just about like with Mars, especially with when it first encountered the Earth what was the year that you that we kind of narrowed it down.

00;36;46;12 – 00;36;54;24
Cameron
47 here with the founding of Rome? Well, what seems to be the first that we have recorded?

00;36;55;13 – 00;37;21;29
Wendy
Okay. And I think that that falls within the timeline of desire. KING of Dude. Anyways, just thinking about it. Come follow me study this week in Amos and they’ll Kosky has a chapter on this too about Amos and that was one of my favorite parts of the book of him talking when you reminded me of it. But because there’s so much science in there.

00;37;21;29 – 00;37;46;27
Wendy
But I loved it when he tied in the scriptures. But in the very first verse, the first chapter of Amos, you know, it’s talking about two years before the earthquake, you know, the the days of Isaiah and he said, the Lord will roar from Zion and utter his voice from Jerusalem. I mean, you see, that is all that that keeps the key understanding.

00;37;47;07 – 00;38;17;22
Wendy
It’s so wonderful. I love I love seeing that in the scriptures now and the habitations of the shepherd shall mourn and the top Carmel shall with her anyway. So as it goes through these chapters, it’s talking about judgment of difference, different people of of Abraham, really different cities and people of the covenant, I believe. But maybe I’m wrong, but they the Lord has been drawing and I’m trying and being patient with them.

00;38;17;22 – 00;38;40;01
Wendy
But the plumb line has dropped and the sense is like, okay, judgment is coming in the light of fire. And, you know, but I will send a fire upon Judah and devour the palaces of Judah. And anyway, so there’s so many of those, I can’t pull them all out. But I just. I was just thinking of, you know, like.

00;38;40;01 – 00;39;16;13
Wendy
So Mars is overhead that, you know, as you know, two years before the earthquake, you know, great, great earthquakes when these these things happen that are recorded in history and and we have it in our scriptures and and so wouldn’t the Lord want us to, like, seek out that understanding and understand more? And even King Hezekiah, there was another encounter, you know, with the black from heaven, the angel of the Lord, saving, saving Jerusalem from the King of Assyria.

00;39;16;28 – 00;39;35;15
Wendy
You know, there was also even interesting, the king was sick. There was a plague. I wonder about there. But the dial up, the sundial went back ten degrees. The rotation of the earth changed. I mean, there’s these little pieces I love I love seeing in scripture almost every week, it seems like in there come from a study in the Bible.

00;39;35;26 – 00;39;52;15
Wendy
So but a lot of that, especially most of the most of the chapters throughout the Bible, when we see that it’s it’s Mars, as it seems from after reading about. BORKOWSKI Yeah, I’m.

00;39;55;23 – 00;39;59;29
Cameron
Trying to think I had a question come up, but now I lost it.

00;40;01;02 – 00;40;01;20
Wendy
No, it’s.

00;40;03;28 – 00;40;09;05
Cameron
There’s just so much here that’s so fascinating and so many different trips to to go down.

00;40;09;05 – 00;40;35;04
Wendy
But you know what I liked that of Bellicosity was in his investigation of the Iliad and and just drawing it to it’s it’s a story about the planets, really. And it’s really cool. I really like like that too. I’m not a big mythological person, but but now I think I am.

00;40;35;04 – 00;41;02;14
Cameron
So that was one of the questions I had posted the other day. Right. But like, I don’t know, I grew up with kind of some mythology, like, Oh yeah, I think this is so cool to look at and read and stuff. And then just kind of in my personal studies and, and the Lord really showing me what idolatry is and how to, to leave Babylon behind kind of a thing.

00;41;02;22 – 00;41;34;17
Cameron
And I’m just like, Oh my gosh, I don’t have any time for anything else but the Lord kind of a thing. And then quite a few different friends and things are looking at different mythologies and saying, Oh yeah, there’s lots of these stories that are very, I guess, worthy of our time to look into from different mythologies, from different cultures, their art and their their storytelling all point us to two different things.

00;41;34;17 – 00;42;01;26
Cameron
And I’m just like, I’m just so off by it. But at the same time, through reading different aspects of how the ancients experienced some, some crazy stuff, and they wrote fictions about it, like, how else do you describe all of these different things and, and tell that to future generations, putting it in story form, you know, like you mentioned, like the Iliad and every.

00;42;01;26 – 00;42;02;07
Wendy
Form.

00;42;03;00 – 00;42;36;00
Cameron
So that it can be passed down, so that we do remember some of these things that have happened and and can happen in the future type thing. And so I think that it’s almost not reverted me back, but it it’s interesting how the Lord can lead you away from something. But then He’d be like, but make sure to take that one little aspect with you as you do study and and think of things in the future, because some of that has a lot of interesting tie ins.

00;42;36;11 – 00;43;03;21
Cameron
And so just looking today, I was reading some, some different things about like Venus and how she was birthed in mythology and taking that and applying it to, okay, what did the Ancients see in the sky and how does that reference her, her birth, her conception kind of a thing? And, and what might that mean? And so it was very interesting how you were saying, oh, well, that’s kind of changed.

00;43;03;21 – 00;43;24;13
Cameron
We don’t really think that that Venus’s is born from Jupiter kind of a thing. And so I was like, Oh, okay, so so what else in the mythology might point to some possible clues there and things. So I don’t know, I’m still going back and forth on my own opinions of of mythology and different cultures of the world.

00;43;24;13 – 00;43;27;22
Cameron
But anyway, it’s, it’s just interesting. That was.

00;43;27;25 – 00;44;02;25
Wendy
Yeah, I’m glad that yeah, we’re got to be open to finding truth wherever it is. Right. And being able to discern it with the spirit and, and hearing him in it. That’s it’s very important that we let go of the unbelief. Right. And let that be released, receive the truth. But does it testify of Christ? And if it’s pulling us off and starting, you know, I mean, I, I love thinking about the divine feminine and that and I have things just almost, it seems like about that.

00;44;03;08 – 00;44;24;01
Wendy
It will just come to me as I study about Christ. But if I start to go down that path and try to find more about it, I get in trouble. I don’t know. That’s me, but I feel like it just what’s the best. I’d like to, like, distill like the juice from heaven. Like, didn’t. 121 I think, right.

00;44;25;04 – 00;44;49;22
Wendy
And that’s what it feels like to me for, for some of these things. It’s, it’s it the puzzle pieces just come right and the Lord to help put it all together. But we just keep the focus on Christ. I guess if I’m going to leave anything with this podcast, I guess are we almost done? But that’s my, that’s, that’s he’ll help you with it.

00;44;49;22 – 00;45;09;08
Wendy
And it’s it’s so it’s so satisfying and invigorating because you feel like you’re getting to know him better, right? And you’re getting to know history and science better. And it’s just it just helps. I don’t know. It helps me feel more grounded in him instead of, like, moved about by every window doctrine and by everything that’s going on in the world too.

00;45;09;19 – 00;45;18;10
Wendy
It’s like, okay, I’m okay. Yeah, I’m receiving revelation. That’s what we need. Right? So I have fun. Yeah.

00;45;19;14 – 00;45;46;08
Cameron
I love it. So an interesting thing, not necessarily that I’m trying to go down this tangent, but some interesting questions have popped up for me this this last week of, okay, so if we have idolatry as the big sin, right? I mean, everything that that we have that pulls us away has its origins in idolatry and and steering away from the one true God.

00;45;46;16 – 00;46;17;19
Cameron
And here in the exodus, we have, you know, the golden calf. We have lots of different things that the Israelites throughout their ages are are pulled away from the one true God. And I had never once considered that these are kind of I don’t know that they can have roots in the cosmic encounters or planetary things. And anyway, it was just kind of a mind shift for me of how what can we learn from that?

00;46;17;19 – 00;46;27;13
Cameron
And what in our future is going to try to pull us away from the one true God and have us worship it rather than than here? And so.

00;46;27;24 – 00;46;31;16
Wendy
Oh, that’s a great question, Cameron. I love it.

00;46;31;16 – 00;47;08;19
Cameron
Like you were saying, with the anti-Christ and things that that are in our future of. Huh, huh. What can we. So I guess this is what I would pose to our audience and our listeners. I would love to hear feedback and all of this of what can or how can we always stay riveted upon the true God and not be led to to worship anything else and bring idolatry into to our worship in, our future encounters and things like that.

00;47;08;19 – 00;47;39;12
Wendy
So can I answer that question right now for for me, for me, it’s not becoming drunk with series because that I mean, like you can kind of become drunk with too much theory of of what about this? What about that? It’s almost like I just need to consume, consume, consume. And I, I take it at the pace that the Lord wants you to take it out and go where He is guiding you.

00;47;39;21 – 00;48;06;09
Wendy
And it’s, it’s fun that, that way. And, and to take it and take it back to take things to its temple to to the scriptures, keep a balance and, you know, temper it in all things and and yeah, the Lord will, will help you keep a balance in it and, and in your heart. And then if it’s yeah, I already shared how I, how I feel about, you know, it being a good seed.

00;48;06;19 – 00;48;13;23
Wendy
But Yeah. Don’t, it’s, it can kind of become becoming drunk with too much theory so good luck with that.

00;48;14;20 – 00;48;43;23
Cameron
It’s amazing. So just kind of ending our our podcast on on that note and inviting all listeners to, to go take a look on our website. We’re going to keep our show notes, the auto transcriptions, anything that we reference, any like websites or extra materials. We’ll have links to that on the the website there. So at learning Zion econ slash cosmism is where you can listen to this.

00;48;43;23 – 00;48;56;15
Cameron
And also there there’s a new section on there where you can give us feedback or comments or questions that you would like us to maybe. I mean, we’re not like these brainiac experts. Right.

00;48;56;15 – 00;48;57;16
Wendy
But like.

00;48;58;08 – 00;49;35;01
Cameron
As we do, take a look at Anthony’s books here, if those questions do pop up or if there’s some way that we can kind of address those questions, even if we don’t necessarily have answers, but maybe point in right directions or oh, yeah, we know of a resource that kind of handles that anyway. So there’s that that comment or that feedback form there on that page now that you can go and fill out and anyway, thanks for, for listening and we look forward to all of this learning that we’re having week to week as we learn God and the scriptures.

00;49;35;02 – 00;50;05;16
Cameron
And just a new aspect a little bit. All right. Thanks, Wendy, for another fun time.

00:00:00:12 – 00:00:24:06
Cameron
Hi and welcome, Wendy. And I just want to express our gratitude for all your lovely encouragement and ideas as we start discussing cosmism and planetary Close Encounters as it relates to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I’m completely new to all of these ideas and theories, whereas Wendy has a good couple of years on me, but together we hope to spark conversation and serve as a guidepost to greater resources as we all prepare for the second coming.

00:00:25:00 – 00:00:51:24
Cameron
In these discussions, we are starting by having a book discussion of Anthony Larson’s trilogy. These three books give a great primer to Volokhonsky as paradigm shifts. We are so excited that you are interested and willing to go on this journey with us. And with that, let’s jump into today’s episode. Hello, everyone, and welcome back for chapter four of of Anthony Larson’s first book in the Trilogy series.

00:00:52:14 – 00:01:18:06
Cameron
So we wanted to address some questions and comments that listeners have have had. So first off, after having listened to our first three episodes, we have a few different areas of questions and comments. The first one here is from Mark and he is the moderator of the Facebook group. We have that link in in the show notes there.

00:01:19:17 – 00:01:43:12
Cameron
And he says that one of the small corrections that I would point out, which you also mentioned in episode one, is about the earth being scattered or broken apart. It’s been a while, but I’m pretty sure that Anthony talks about how the Ancients considered the whole polar configuration, which is that saturnian constellation system of planets as the earth.

00:01:43:12 – 00:02:14:03
Cameron
When it broke apart, it was the planets that moved away from Saturn. This also explains the Earth being gathered in that the planets will again congregate together in a new polar configuration with all of the associated events that accompany such an encounter. I would need to do an in-depth study on the wording and context of associated events, like the idea that the continents divided on the earth and if it is more symbolic about the polar configuration.

00:02:14:12 – 00:02:36:19
Cameron
It’s hard to tell, as scripture can be very symbolic with little direct scientific evidence. It could be both happen at the same time, or it could be an idea based on ancient symbolism. Not sure. Keep an open mind. So in light of that comment, a couple other people had questions about what is this polar configuration that we’re talking about?

00:02:36:20 – 00:02:53:13
Cameron
Very new to the idea of everything. So, Wendy, how would you describe what polar configuration is and how that that changes and morphs as we are studying the different ages and and how it relates to Cosmos and in general?

00:02:54:21 – 00:03:27:14
Wendy
Well, it’s a very central feature. It is referred to a lot, especially in the Saturnian age, and that’s one that’s been reconstructed as the best word by scientists over thunderbolts and we’ll start with Bill Cosby and Anthony Larson’s work. So that golden age, the patriarchal age, is often what it’s referred to is is those when when the patriarchs like Adam and.

00:03:28:18 – 00:03:56:00
Wendy
Oh, sorry. Although, first of all, the patriarchs, you know, how they they were like so old, like thousands of years old, like. Like eight of them alive at the same time. You know, so that we see in scripture those. Those patriarchal lines. So there was definitely a different atmosphere. There was a different there was a there was different laws in effect.

00:03:56:00 – 00:04:22:10
Wendy
And we have to think about that when we’re studying just the spiritual side of things. But it’s it helps us to understand God and those those ages as we look at those things. And in this light, this light, what was occurring at that time was that there was Saturn, Venus and Mars, all aligning with the Earth. And the Earth is in that alignment.

00:04:22:10 – 00:05:03:11
Wendy
And we are moving together. We are if we were orbiting, we were orbiting together, we might have just been moving from the presence of God after the fall of. I’m not sure. I’m not sure. But we we were definitely in this alignment where there was this we saw Mars Red, but the ancient saw in the middle. And then Venus was a lot brighter, had a lot of energy, the plasma filaments and her raised her to refer to Venus as a she in this polar configuration of Saturn behind her, almost like the background, the father in the background.

00:05:03:17 – 00:05:41:19
Wendy
And of course, Mars is often referred to as the warrior and and depicted in mythology in red and so forth. So. So, yeah, you’ve got this this polar configuration in the sky that basically held us together. We were in in an almost a womb. And having this atmosphere that was definitely different. And if it if it, if Saturn was a red dwarf star, that would make a lot of sense because it would be this this atmosphere that was just saturated.

00:05:41:19 – 00:06:01:20
Wendy
And anyway, so when that broke apart, you know, if that’s what happened and then all the water just fell from heaven, you know, this that was in our atmosphere like this, like womb stayed the best. I think I see that just in my mind as I’m learning these things. I’m I’m coming to my own conclusions. So that’s what these are.

00:06:01:20 – 00:06:26:23
Wendy
But so that polar configuration is, is a holy thing. I mean, it’s in a sense of that’s the priesthood of or the or maybe it’s like it’s a priesthood or that alignment, right. Is there’s something with that. But also the the what’s the word I’m looking for the presidency. That’s what I was looking for, too, is like the presidency.

00:06:26:23 – 00:06:55:15
Wendy
And or you could see it as Peter James and John. You know, angels are ministering to us. And could that be could that be what it’s also. So there’s so many layers and levels to everything. One and it could mean many things. So it’s that’s that’s the point of symbols. It’s in a sense, we’re supposed to we’re supposed to see how we relate not relate to God, but in our relationship with God.

00:06:55:23 – 00:06:56:07
Cameron
Mm hmm.

00:06:56:20 – 00:07:27:14
Wendy
So anyway, that’s kind of in a nutshell. I think it’s safe. It’s the best way to start just with a saturnian era. And and looking at those things and studying what’s been reconstructed and finding those things in the temple or in our in our scripture reading and just basically what is our relationship with God? And when we’re brought back into his presence or in the terrestrial kingdom, will it often be kind of like a past this we came from God and it was in this state and now we’re in a fall and we are not connected in that kind of.

00:07:27:14 – 00:07:46:05
Wendy
We are very much in a different state. We’re connected, but we’re not temporally speaking. We are very far from him. And so when we return, when we have a new heavens and a new earth, how it’s going to be in almost a chaos return is how I see that.

00:07:46:22 – 00:08:13:16
Cameron
Yeah, well, that makes a lot of sense. So a couple other follow up questions in that same line is it’s really hard to Google some of these images, right? Like when we’re talking about polar configuration or Crescent Piller, etc., I find that very interesting. I often just go to Anthony’s videos and just watch until one of them pops up and screenshot it kind of a thing.

00:08:13:16 – 00:08:41:14
Cameron
But somebody asked, Is the crescent pillar that he talks about in one of his lessons the same thing as a polar configuration? And so I’m going to pop that up on the screen if anybody happens to to watch this rather than just listening to it. This is what they’re referring to as the crescent pillar. So this is the polar configuration, if I’m understanding right, that you’re talking about during that that saturnian age.

00:08:42:00 – 00:09:12:03
Wendy
Right. But in most in this example, Mars has descended and you think of Christ’s ascending and he’s descending. And in a sense, this is a heaven man picture. It’s basically another symbol in the skies and acoustics, physicists, archetypes of principles of gospel. So in this, the crescent, you could see all of those as, you know, it looks like a horn of the cat and we’ll get into that as well.

00:09:12:03 – 00:09:49:04
Wendy
And ancient times, they also would depict the tongue coming down or sticking out of a god’s mouth, which is is the pillar descending? But this the plasma coming. That’s the the electromagnetic. There’s you know, that phenomena that’s happening. But it’s also the Lord descending to us is the priesthood, right? And he’s descending to connect with us to the earth that we’re we’re basically under his like a hand under her wings right.

00:09:49:04 – 00:10:12:13
Wendy
We are within that. But that’s also the Temple Mount. That’s that, that’s the mount. And so it’s it’s a basically the world mountain. That’s the temple of the Lord in heaven is the polar configuration. But then it’s descending and we are within that the fiery, that fiery pillar. And so with the arm, arm up, arms raised, you could look at it in that sense too.

00:10:13:04 – 00:10:38:18
Wendy
And that we see ourselves in that as we become like Christ. So there’s so many levels of that. But it’s so the, the column is part of the polar configuration, definitely. But it’s, it’s, it’s like where are you in that? It’s the plumb line to being dropped and it’s like judgment to like, are we going to be burnt?

00:10:38:20 – 00:11:01:20
Wendy
Are we going to be within Zion? So that’s the reaching down in the reaching up. And you see that. And in in the temple you see symbols of this like a plasma filament braid, plasma actually twists. And it’s got two of them that twist together. I mean, they twist around each other on a spiral staircase. We go see that ladder to heaven, right.

00:11:01:23 – 00:11:23:13
Wendy
Going up. But it’s it’s so anyway that I just lost my train of thought. So I guess that’s where I’m going to end. But. But you see that in the temples, even just in the celestial room or other places, you’ll see that there’s a twisting. You see that the vines twisting around each other or in the temple, it’s very modern.

00:11:23:13 – 00:11:51:01
Wendy
And so it’s got the right angles thick. But it’s it’s there. And it’s interesting because that’s God reaching down to us and us reaching up to him. And it’s in the Pocatello Temple, too. If you ever go over there to serve, like in the in the when you’re in the endowment in our in a lower kingdom, it’s they’re just barely reaching up and the ones at the top are barely reaching down.

00:11:51:01 – 00:12:13:17
Wendy
But in the celestial kingdom I mean, in the celestial room there, they’re touching each other. We’re reaching up and God’s reaching down, and that’s where we’re a meeting. And anyway, so there’s so much beautiful symbolism around the glory of God. And that’s what plasma is. It is the glory of God that in and through all things. And it’s it’s light.

00:12:13:17 – 00:12:34:03
Wendy
And we, we often don’t connect that we are this is an electric universe. I mean, gravity is I mean, of course we see we’ve named this phenomena gravity, but it’s been the definition of it. It’s changed over time. You know, it’s first. Newton said it was this and then Einstein said it was this and this. But it’s morphing still.

00:12:34:03 – 00:13:02:05
Wendy
It’s there’s there’s a it’s about relationships. It’s about being in harmony with each other, with orbits. And I was watching this video the other day about about this as a musician, but they were we’re talking about sound theory. And he was talking about orbits and how within like different intervals, you know, fifth. Fourth is like you can’t go all the way up to 17.

00:13:02:07 – 00:13:19:21
Wendy
You know, that would be in this other interval for us. You can’t go too far. But we was talking about it in orbital mechanics, but within within sound and within harmony and how you can switch it. But you always it’s kind of like you can stretch a little bit, but you can’t stretch too far. It always keeps you in this.

00:13:20:02 – 00:13:43:22
Wendy
What my friend says, it’s kind of like a stretchy mesh. We can stretch so far, but it’s just going to be brought back. You know, we have our choice, but our our our agency. But even those we love and it’s it’s this harmony with each other that’s based on electro magnetic plasma, all these wonderful scientific things that we don’t even know about yet that are still being discovered.

00:13:43:22 – 00:14:07:22
Wendy
But it’s about relationships and and and the electrical the relationship that we have with each other. And God is all powerful, but he’s bringing us into alignment with him. And we have to want to take on his glory and to to become like him or else we’re just along to ourselves and we don’t have any power. Right? We’re just part of chaos matter.

00:14:07:22 – 00:14:46:06
Wendy
That’s another organized, right? So. So it’s when you start seeing things instead of this gravity based, you know, centric universe, it’s so not true. We’re so connected. And that’s BIRKELAND Currencies is the my my baby found it okay you find something so we go for like twice. Okay go find your grandpa. Maybe put that up or maybe it’s cute, but anyway, so it’s okay if I just go a little bit on that with with a little bit more with the glue.

00:14:46:11 – 00:15:08:24
Wendy
The body is electric and for like 13 years now, I started the Lord brought me to like we need to look at the electrical nature of your body and not just think about it in the biological sense that I’ve been taught because I love the body. But so he’s been teaching me about, about how the body is electric and working with it because as it is below.

00:15:08:24 – 00:15:50:17
Wendy
So it is above, you know, we’ve got different, different things in our bodies that are governing. Right. And they but they work together and they’re in alignment with each other. And they’re they’re trying to be one. Right. And, you know, how do we help them become one and and connected to God? And as we as we come into him and we share him, we literally hear him and his glory actually brings us into to align with him and changes us so that then our our frequency and our wavelength, everything about light, you know, if you go study, I’m going to go into it.

00:15:50:17 – 00:15:53:06
Wendy
But the spirit, you read it right? Cameron The book.

00:15:54:06 – 00:15:56:07
Cameron
The spiritual, spiritual life. Yeah.

00:15:56:19 – 00:16:21:05
Wendy
Exactly. And. Franklin Yes. So that’s that’s really good basics for just take that and say, okay, that’s happening in my body, that’s happening in the universe. And so when we are when we are aligned with him, we are actually receiving and as like a satellite, we are then a temple of God that’s that’s able to to shine for him and be a light on the hill and so forth.

00:16:21:16 – 00:16:49:10
Wendy
So, so anyway, when we’re going through all these things and there’s electric discharge, you know, we see, see phenomena in the in the sky or what’s it’s like below. Then we have pain or nerve impulses that are trying to tell us that something’s often not aligned to truth. It’s it’s kind of like a discharge, like an electric discharge and say, you know, we’re as below, so above and so below.

00:16:49:20 – 00:17:19:15
Wendy
So it’s kind of like a mirror to us and helping us to understand, you know, how God is working to bring capacity while the internal life of me on this earth, but also how we are going to become like him and be able to eventually inherit planet, you know. And so having go to German Imam and all this wonderful stuff but of so anyway, we’ll just we’ll just stop there for a bit.

00:17:19:15 – 00:17:30:08
Wendy
I got to take care of my baby. But first of all, all right. But I hope that answers those questions. Yes. Or too much.

00:17:30:08 – 00:17:57:21
Cameron
But yeah, yeah, I love it. And so I encourage anybody that that’s listening. If you have questions or comments or whatever, we have the chat form there on learning Zion dot com slash cosmism down toward the bottom of the page. You can ask us any questions and and we’ll try to address those or answer those in a timely manner and if they’re coming up in our readings in the chapters.

00:17:57:21 – 00:18:17:16
Cameron
But anyway, it’s like there’s so much new information being thrown at me. I feel like I’m. Do you ever watch, like, those exercise videos? And they have, like, the chubby kid in the corner that’s like doing the modified version. That’s how I feel. Like I have no idea who. Hardly any of them.

00:18:18:04 – 00:18:25:04
Wendy
Oh, I’m sorry. If it’s. Well, I. We need to take note of that, though. I don’t want to go too deep, if that’s how you’re feeling, that’s all.

00:18:25:12 – 00:19:00:14
Cameron
Oh, no, I’m just talking like cosmism in general. But, like, I think Anthony’s books here are all kind of introducing us, and then we have these questions, right, that come up as we’re reading. Yeah, but then it’s this. This fact of now what do I go for more answers. And, and so I hope that that’s what this podcast provides people is coming from a not super intellectual place and kind of bringing it down to to everybody’s level so that we can kind of get our bearings and and things in it.

00:19:00:20 – 00:19:20:11
Cameron
Because as I dove into like thunderbolts or different ones, everything’s just over my head and I kind of get discouraged and like, I don’t know, but I really look forward to my chats with Wendy because she doesn’t like helping describe it better, or at least put me in the right direction. But like, Hey, yeah, I’ll go study this and this and that’ll answer your questions kind of thing.

00:19:20:18 – 00:19:53:22
Cameron
So I hope that that’s what our listeners can do as well. Feel free to comment and ask us questions or correct us on anything that we might not have up to date information on or anything like that, and communicate with us. And we’ll we’ll definitely incorporate that in here. But yeah, so diving into chapter four of and the Moon Shall Turn to Blood, I always just call it book one, but so this chapter is called Answers to Some Puzzling Questions.

00:19:54:13 – 00:20:22:20
Cameron
And here we dove into on the heels of of the exodus and and explaining that from chapter three, we talk about more about the the arcs and the serpent motifs, the the imagery of parables and understanding some of the prophetic things as they relate to this event that happened at the Exodus, according to Koski. So yeah, let let’s just dove on in here.

00:20:23:04 – 00:21:02:16
Cameron
This first paragraph I find very good to kind of summarize where we’re headed in answering some of these questions. He says that Volokhonsky theses concerning ancient heavenly manifestations may explain why nearly all ancient religions commonly referenced two images the cow and the serpent. It may also serve to increase our understanding of Scripture references on these two objects. Although the Israelites were not idle worshipers, the imagery of both the serpent and the cow is used repeatedly by the prophets, and the symbol of the ox and the snake were both used by Moses, according to the Lord’s instructions.

00:21:04:06 – 00:21:36:06
Cameron
So why do we have these these images of the the ox and the serpent coming up in both negative and positive ways among the Israelites? How do we wrestle with those questions and let’s see, what’s my what’s my overarching questions here? So when is it wrong to have images of orcs and serpents, and when is it used by God to teach us parables and and metaphors and things?

00:21:36:12 – 00:21:47:09
Cameron
So how have you wrestled with with that, with these images? When does it become idolatry? When is it okay to use and when does the Lord use it inappropriate ways?

00:21:47:09 – 00:22:23:19
Wendy
That’s a really good question. It’s it’s kind of like where where is the heart at? Like is the heart seat king greater greater connection to God? Or is it seeking to to find to to find kind of like their own their own paradigm or my own paradigm because it’s very natural and normal going through all this. There’s a there’s a paradigm shift and then paradigm shifts.

00:22:23:19 – 00:22:44:24
Wendy
You’re going to feel like f like like everybody’s ahead of me in the classroom and I’m sitting in the corner just trying to, you know, do A, B, C and so forth. So because in a sense, you’re jumping right in and that’s there’s really only one way to do this and it’s to jump right in. It’s kind of like when you when you’re baby or you’ve seen those.

00:22:45:13 – 00:23:13:20
Wendy
We had this always has a baby in it from the water and they eventually learned to swim. And that’s what it is with this paradigm shift for everybody. It is big and it’s huge. So as far as with symbols and and signs are not of themselves unholy. And I would say anything any any symbol, anything that’s been created by God will point us to him.

00:23:14:07 – 00:23:39:22
Wendy
It’s when we when we put that on the pedestal and say, that’s going to save me or that I am going to create this new understanding so that I feel safe without having to be connected to him. Then we get in trouble. And so I would I would say it’s it’s not bad, except when it’s become apostate and when you’re not when you’re not trying to God for that understanding.

00:23:39:22 – 00:23:59:16
Wendy
And I, I was reading a couple of weeks ago setting for this first podcast in the Dead Sea, and I didn’t bring that notebook in, but the Lord was warning me about just making sure I don’t know if this warning me or warning others. Just be careful when you’re speaking signs that it’s that it’s for the right purpose.

00:23:59:16 – 00:24:21:06
Wendy
Now is seeking signs that have we in scriptures do you see evidence is where somebody is asking for another sign or witness. Yeah. And that’s not that. Right. But it is when we’re we’re seeking to, to appease our natural man and to take care of the fear that might be there when our fear should be turned to God.

00:24:21:12 – 00:24:44:07
Wendy
And that it’s not fear of God, but it’s turning to him and letting him bring us into alignment to actually change our unbelief, to be something that’s that’s in alignment and is full of truth and light, even though we’re like we feel like nothing like all the prophets say, you know, when they first come in the presence of God, they feel like nothing.

00:24:45:01 – 00:25:06:18
Wendy
And, and so anyway, so then my mind, I think that’s a really good thing to think about because that just means you’re on the right that you’re, you’re not speaking for the signs or understanding the signs in heaven or in the temple or in scriptures or whatever, for purposes to, to to move yourself forward, but to understand God.

00:25:07:02 – 00:25:08:20
Wendy
And so I think that’s great.

00:25:08:20 – 00:25:39:23
Cameron
Yeah, I love that. That helps explain that quite well. So the next part here, I mean it kind of continuing along that same line there on page 34, it talks about Aaron and having been a man who studied under Moses and been called of God to be a spokesperson. So why is he creating this this Golden Council along with the Israelites here?

00:25:40:05 – 00:26:03:03
Cameron
That second paragraph says, it seems curious that the children of Israel would wish to worship a golden calf in light of the fact that God had so severely punished the idol worshiping Egyptians. Hadn’t they been delivered just as mood as as Moses had promised? Hadn’t they’d been told that Idol worship was wicked and they witnessed the power of God in their deliverance more than anyone else, hadn’t they?

00:26:03:03 – 00:26:38:20
Cameron
Good reason to be true to God’s commandments. So Volokhonsky the explanation of the appearance of Venus in the days before and after the Exodus seems, at least to some extent, to explain the idolatry of the Israelites. In other words, the children of Israel forged an idol in the form of the image where the comet Venus, which they had seen in the heavens, so kind of taking a look back at the previous chapter and and what they are seen as they are escaping the Egyptians and this this comet is appearing.

00:26:39:01 – 00:27:09:18
Cameron
The waters are parting and they’re going through. I can’t say that I would be much different than the Israelites. I don’t know the full context. Right. But that holy cow, we this this thing saved us. But at the same time, it’s kind of a fear based worship versus going, thank you, God, for for sending this comet and and helping us through this and in going straight and just worshiping the comet and hoping that it does come and attack you again, that kind of a thing.

00:27:09:18 – 00:27:18:09
Wendy
And and and everybody all over the earth, it seems like they have the same the same you. Right?

00:27:18:21 – 00:27:51:09
Cameron
Yeah. And so how all of these different cultures or the world are taking the sounds, the the actual events in the skies, the visual aspect of it, I mean, they all have echoes and and are all referencing that going, whoa, I have to wonder if all of the other cultures were also being directed by a a leader or a prophet figure like the Israelites were with Moses.

00:27:51:15 – 00:28:17:03
Cameron
Like, did they have any context for what was happening or is this just out of the blue and happening for them very differently than than the Israelites as as in Israel? I would be like thanking God, like thank you for warning this and having a prophet here to tell us what is happening, because this is so crazy. This is something we’ve never experienced before.

00:28:18:24 – 00:28:36:19
Wendy
I think you would that’s that’s the God I, I know is that he sends prophets to tell the people of impending destruction and to call them to repentance and to guide those that will listen to to safety and deliverance. So I think I love that idea of laughing.

00:28:37:11 – 00:29:04:08
Cameron
Yeah. This, this next paragraph kind of continuing where it left off there. He quotes the the prophet Amos and he says, I think, well, let me backtrack the word himself. Speaking through the Prophet Amos hundreds of years later rebuked the house of Israel sin. But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and your tune, your images, the star of your God, which he made to yourselves.

00:29:04:23 – 00:29:27:20
Cameron
Since the only image which the children of Israel made during their wanderings was that of the golden calf, it would seem it is to the image or star which the Lord had reference in speaking of the Star of your God, the historian Ginsberg quotes rabbinical literature, saying that the Israelites saw the ox in the heaven while they were passing through the Red Sea.

00:29:27:20 – 00:30:01:08
Cameron
And so anyway, I just found that very interesting of tying in some of the cultural aspects there. I really love. That’s a quote. It’s kind of like this multiple quote, multiple layer quote. But Ginsberg wrote that in Legends of the Jews, which is an excellent compilation of of Jewish thought. And that in itself is quoted in Volokhonsky Worlds in Collision and then quoted here.

00:30:02:19 – 00:30:03:17
Cameron
It’s quoted all the way up.

00:30:04:01 – 00:30:09:04
Wendy
Must be pretty good when prophets quote prophets, you know you should listen, right?

00:30:09:21 – 00:30:12:03
Cameron
Yeah, exactly. And this is a, you know, not.

00:30:12:03 – 00:30:14:19
Wendy
Quoting prophets, but. But some really good historians.

00:30:15:07 – 00:30:46:08
Cameron
Mm hmm. Yeah. And so taking that and kind of transitioning from from ox to to serpent. So what is happening when in in the exodus and the parting of the sea and everything. So he the Ginsberg quote there talks about the that they seen the ox in heaven as they were traveling through. But is that at the same time like concurrently with the serpent imagery or does that come after or.

00:30:46:08 – 00:30:50:12
Cameron
I don’t know, my my timeline. There was a little bit confused as I was reading this.

00:30:51:22 – 00:31:32:19
Wendy
Yeah, my timeline’s good on that. Either it seems like they did not see the dragon per say during that time with the exodus. It was because of what, like you said, the tabernacle of their images, the star of your pod, which you made yourself. So it seems like they just saw the the, the crescent during that time. Yeah, it’s interesting when I’m reading this, I’m having other questions when I’m seeing like they have two different images, Moloch and Chosen or is there the star of your God?

00:31:33:17 – 00:31:57:03
Wendy
And so I’m like, what’s why did they listen to that? And I don’t know, like in our reconstruction of things, when I say, Ah, I’m thinking of the modern day reconstruction that’s going on there, the thunderbolts from from bellicosity on up. I don’t know, like is there a few different, two different things going on there that create the Star of the Cross?

00:31:57:05 – 00:32:24:01
Wendy
I don’t know, but it just keeps me in my mind open, like reading. I think the scriptures contain the key to unlocking many things and to even the rest, you know, restoration of all things. When we’re trying to reconstruct things, it’s really like we’re studying it out in our minds and learning these things so that the world can then restore us, restore things to what they were originally meant to be.

00:32:25:08 – 00:32:31:14
Wendy
But anyway, I, I, I like finding questions and there’s so many more questions than answers, and that’s just part of the gig.

00:32:32:24 – 00:32:55:22
Cameron
Yeah, I love it. So, so yeah. Along the line of what we were talking about there, his ending paragraph on the ox part says, in other words, all ancient cultures worship the cow because all the inhabitants of the earth had seen the same manifestation in the sky. So just another witness that all these cultures are experiencing and having similar traditions.

00:32:55:22 – 00:33:13:02
Cameron
And so they must have seen the the same thing in the heavens and creating the mythology around it, creating stories so that that story gets passed down to their future generations and teaching them the principles and everything behind it.

00:33:13:20 – 00:33:45:17
Wendy
Oh, I love that. Just what you said, the story. Right. Stories are huge in our in worship. And the stories with with the gods is power. Right? All these things are kind of relating back to chapter three. And we went through all the powerful manifestations that occurred. And in that depicted in chapter three, we have to keep those kind of in our mind when we’re understanding what these images they saw and why they placed those things in such such reverence, I guess.

00:33:45:18 – 00:33:54:06
Wendy
Right. Or fear. But in a way, that’s kind of one of the definitions of reverence. No, no, let’s keep going. I think. Whatever. Delve into it later.

00:33:55:14 – 00:34:31:19
Cameron
All right. Um, so the next section is about Satan and the serpent, and he has quite a lengthy paragraph here. So. So bear with me, because I think the whole thing is very important to kind of get this imagery in our mind of what they are seeing and and what this serpent or where this dragon comes from. In a lot of these stories, it says that at the same time that the seas were heaped up in immense tides, a pageant going on in the sky, which presented itself to the horrified onlookers on earth as a gigantic battle.

00:34:31:19 – 00:35:03:17
Cameron
The tale of the comet and its head, having become entangled with each other by their close contact with the earth, exchanged violent discharges of electricity. The tail and the head were attracted one to the other and repelled one from the other. From the serpent, like tail extensions grew and it lost the form of a column. It looks now like a furious animal with legs and with many heads, the discharges toward the column to pieces, a process that was accompanied by a reign of meteorites upon the earth.

00:35:04:00 – 00:35:32:11
Cameron
It appeared as though the monster were defeated by the brilliant globe and buried in the sea. The events in the sky were viewed by the peoples of the world as a fight between an evil monster in the form of a serpent and a light God who engaged the monster in battle and thus saved the world. The tale of the comet, leaping back and forth under the discharges of the flaming globe, was regarded as a separate body, inimical to the globe of the comet.

00:35:32:24 – 00:36:00:00
Cameron
The sea was cleft, the earth was cut with furrows. The earth trembled for many years, and the peoples thought that the fiery dragon that had been struck down had descended underground and was groaning there. And that’s a quote from Worlds in Collision to look up the original source. But anyway, I’m trying to visualize all of this and thinking of my normal day to day things.

00:36:00:00 – 00:36:28:14
Cameron
And if this were to play out in the heavens, as we know, I, I don’t know what the heck I was thinking, but but you tried to, to explain this to future generations who have not experienced it before, thinking you can kind of see how all of these different cultures have a mythology around it where the Bruce, the thunder light God is battling the the serpent and and winning and throwing it down.

00:36:29:14 – 00:37:19:11
Cameron
And likewise in all the cultures, we have very similar stories and mythology being passed down. But they’re they’re new ones because of the individual cultures and where they were at in in their process. But the fact that we even have this in a Judeo-Christian type context, we don’t branded as mythology, but taking a look at how this played out in a natural sense and how it points us to Christ and the pattern of good and evil and, how we work through that, I think is very interesting to take those myths and and recognize that we also have have those likewise.

00:37:20:04 – 00:37:43:23
Wendy
Yeah. We go to theaters to to watch it play out in so many ways. It’s it’s, you know, there’s still gods on our screens and there’s, you know, there’s one there’s, you know, lots of cataclysms or whatnot to go there to have an experience right.

00:37:43:23 – 00:38:30:06
Cameron
And so here in Anthony’s book, he then goes into kind of taking a look at the scriptures and where we have these these parables, these stories and things playing out. The first one that he mentions in regard to this serpent show In The Heavens is from Isaiah 51 nine through ten. It says, Awake, awake, put on strength. Oh, arm of the Lord, awake as in the ancient, is in the generations of old art thou, not it, that have cut Ahab, the contestant, and wounded the dragon art thou not it, which had dried the sea, the waters of the great deep that have made the depths of the sea a way for the ransom to pass

00:38:30:06 – 00:39:01:14
Cameron
over. Now I’ve read that a ton of time with Isaiah Institute and different Isaiah commentaries, but with Cosmism it brings a whole different context. And I read that this time I’m going. That brings a whole lot, a whole new round of questions to mind as it makes a lot of sense in this kind of a bellicosity. In perspective.

00:39:01:14 – 00:39:26:12
Cameron
And he says that Isaiah was speaking of the exodus. Note the reference to the ransomed or the Israelites crossing over the depths of the sea. Rahab is a poetical name for Egypt. The arm of the Lord may even be a reference to the head of the comet itself, for Isaiah points to it as the agent which cut Rahab or Egypt, wounded the dragon, the comet’s tail and dried the sea.

00:39:27:08 – 00:39:51:23
Cameron
And so, yeah. What experience have you had going through Isaiah or other scriptures and taking a look at. Whoa, I have kind of a perspective of that layer now and I can see it more details and nuance or answers to to some of the scriptures and prophetic writings. Have you found that a lot in your study.

00:39:53:04 – 00:40:27:08
Wendy
Is coming through Old Testament again? Yes. So much even just this this last. Come, follow me. We’ll dove into it. But there’s there’s so much like chariots in the skies and stuff. That was one of the things that Bellicosity pointed out was a mars one. When Mars passed over during another age, he had like isn’t in his entourage of of I don’t know if it was just the moons or what it was, but the chariots in the sky, it looked like fiery.

00:40:28:02 – 00:40:48:24
Wendy
They often lots of cultures would refer to those as as chariots or wheels, wheels of fire. And anyway so but what I see, I mean, when you get past a little bit of fear, because there is there’s some things that come up with that and it’s okay to acknowledge that that that’s that’s that’s there. But you get through it.

00:40:49:03 – 00:41:14:10
Wendy
And what I see now is when you see I see the glory of God in especially in Isaiah, it makes so much more sense. Like I love Isaiah Institute and seeing and connecting with like key words throughout scripture, but the same goes when you start to see it in this sense, you see different keywords jump out, for instance, like see or the great deep.

00:41:14:10 – 00:41:41:24
Wendy
It can refer to the heavens of the Great Deep being out there. And anyway, that’s a whole other level, but so, so one of the things I love about this chapter with, with Isaiah 51, and that’s also in second five eight, that’s actually one of my favorite chapters. But there’s one of the footnotes there.

00:41:42:03 – 00:41:43:17
Cameron
You can kind of yeah.

00:41:44:05 – 00:42:10:13
Wendy
This is just kind of answering your question. What I see when I read, I see the glory of God and his priesthood power and him changing us to be able to become like him and to receive the glory that he has, and to be able to carry the priesthood and be endowed with power at through our covenants, through a covenantal relationship which is literally entering into that priesthood or plasma relationship.

00:42:10:23 – 00:42:36:06
Wendy
But anyway, so see 113 is if you go to five eight and you’re and you jump over from oh, covered, awake, awake, put on this strength arm of the Lord and in signify is says Oh Zion. And so I think, okay, here’s another word link. So arm of the Lord that be Zion. I think it is you know, the arm of the Lord is it’s action.

00:42:36:09 – 00:43:18:13
Wendy
It’s it’s taking action through with His glory to bring about his works. Right? And so, so when you link that in the references, it goes over to D and C 113 and it says is in verse five and there’s question number seven. What does that mean? Oh, Zion. What people have Isaiah reference to and then the Lord said and he had reference to those who God should call in the last days, who should hold the power of priesthood to bring again Zion and the redemption of Israel and to put on her strength is to put on the authority of the priesthood, which she is.

00:43:18:13 – 00:43:47:17
Wendy
Zion has a right to by lineage and also to return to that power which she had lost. And so and I’m reading Eisenhauer a throughout the scripture, we see the judgments if people aren’t aligned to that. But when when we’re within, when we’re within the covenant, then the curses and the the evil that is around us is cut off.

00:43:48:01 – 00:44:11:01
Wendy
We are delivered just like the people in the house of Israel were. And we are passed over and we’re we’re brought through, you know, the covenant and through the you know, you lose the man of Christ restraint. And there, of course, of course, over the over the Gulf of Missouri. Right to to sit down with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

00:44:11:11 – 00:44:42:24
Wendy
And so so we have to go through the the the fire, in a sense, to or the the dry ground, you know, with the waves on either side of us, we have to get through that fear and we have to get through all of it. And knowing that the Lord’s delivering us to put on his strength and to bring again Zion, to be his hands, to be the arm of the Lord, and to to actually be able to I want to keep using the word a line, but I don’t know what the word there is.

00:44:42:24 – 00:45:03:13
Wendy
But we we literally have to to be able to hear him and then his knowledge and his power in the Word of God that then is within us can then bring about his work. So so for me, when I read all this, I’m and I’m seeing it in a spiritual sense, but it’s also I want to jump back before we start talking about the serpent now.

00:45:03:15 – 00:45:28:24
Wendy
So the question about plasma, because because even though we can’t literally see it, it’s there like it’s working in our bodies. It’s, it’s our connection with each other and why we feel connected to each other, the light of Christ. But it’s but plasma has been called the fourth state of matter after solids, liquids and gases. Most of the matter in the universe is in the form of plasma, is what they’ve observed.

00:45:28:24 – 00:45:56:07
Wendy
Right. But it’s there’s still things that we can’t with our our natural eyes. But and Joseph Smith said that if we if we did have that, we would see that all things have that they said in the DNC. So it says a plasma is formed. If some up plasma is formed, as some of the negatively charged electrons are separated from their host atoms in a gas, leaving the atoms with a positive charge, you see that kind of like in a plasma ball?

00:45:56:19 – 00:46:20:09
Wendy
There wasn’t that little purple ball, was there just kind of striking out, you know, to find that equilibrium. But but when it’s in the line with them, that’s there’s there’s that that power that’s not chaotic. But the negatively charged electrons and the positive charge atoms are then free to move separately under the influence of light. I wish I had too.

00:46:20:18 – 00:46:46:23
Wendy
I was going to try to describe that. I don’t have notes with me. I don’t have visuals. That’s probably not good to go into that. But there’s basically this magnetic field lines that are throughout space, throughout time, and and we want to be in alignment with those. And when we share him, like President Nelson said, when we are when we hear him, then we’ll be able to spiritually survive because we are connected basically to him.

00:46:47:09 – 00:47:10:23
Wendy
And that’s how we are connected to all of these things, is when we hear him and receive knowledge, which is literally the light of God or plasma. And so if you think of these things in that sense and a thing like The Serpent or the Dragon and the discharge in the sky, which was not in alignment and there’s chaos and a little crazy.

00:47:11:10 – 00:47:36:11
Wendy
But that’s, that’s what happens when we’re not in peace and harmony and then up and a rest with the Lord. Right. Finding rest with him despite what’s going on around, which is because we are held in in almost is not as warm. But we’re in a state of safety. Right. So anyway, that’s kind of what I see now in scripture and in the temporal sense as well.

00:47:37:02 – 00:48:05:04
Cameron
So it I don’t know, it’s just so fun even though like I’m just barely getting started in it. But it’s really starting to open up a whole new layer of things that I had not considered before. Have you ever heard of kind of the Hebrew way of looking at Scripture called Paradise Parties, where there’s there’s four different layers to all things and and all Scripture.

00:48:05:23 – 00:48:53:11
Cameron
You have the passionate layer which is the surface layer, the literal meaning of things. You have the Remmers layer, the Dirac layer, and then the third layer, which is like the mysteries, the things that only can come through personal revelation, through whisperings of the spirit kind of thing. And so the Hebrews really take that, that approach to scriptures saying this can apply on so many different levels, like never pigeonhole yourself into only looking at things literally or looking at things spiritually that through all of it, wherever you’re at, God can speak to you and unveil a new layer of the song and teach you new things all the time.

00:48:53:19 – 00:49:24:15
Cameron
And so looking at scripture like Isaiah here and just looking at it from that, that cosmism kind of perspective is, is quite interesting and helping explain certain nuances to the other layers because everything’s overlapping anyway. That was kind of a weird nerdy thing. But like that’s where I’m at with my Hebrew study groups. And so that’s awesome. And if taking that and applying it here, it, it just makes a whole heck of a lot of sense.

00:49:25:11 – 00:49:52:11
Cameron
So the next section here is talking about the serpent in the future. And so we he’s quoting revelation and and the times that it’s mentioning the serpent there. So this is the first one is Revelation nine. Verse one says, John, in the book of Revelation appears to have reference to the same event as that just quoted in Isaiah 27 one.

00:49:53:10 – 00:50:25:19
Cameron
So let me let me backtrack and go to Isaiah 27 one and then read that to Revelation one. So Isaiah says in that day, the Lord with his sword and great and strong sword shall punish Leviathan, the piercing serpent, even Leviathan, that crooked serpent, and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea and then bouncing to Revelation nine one that he saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth to him, or was given the key of the bottomless pit.

00:50:26:07 – 00:50:50:11
Cameron
John further declared in Revelation 20, and I saw an angel come down from heaven having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years and cast him into the bottomless pit and shut him up and set a seal upon him that he should deceive the nations no more.

00:50:51:15 – 00:51:21:12
Cameron
And so Anthony’s commentary here that the prophets were not naive and an absurd I mean, not that I ever thought that the prophets were naive, but I’m starting to to realize how much the layers to everything that they saw. They knew that Satan was not a serpent, but the analogy was a convenient and appropriate one. Anyone knowing the true nature of the past and the future destructions would understand, which I find so interesting.

00:51:21:21 – 00:52:17:02
Cameron
Is it in here that he talks about Nephi and looking forward? Oh yeah, we just had. But yeah, how all of the prophets are seeing this. And so when they’re granted the cosmic vision that the vision of all and seeing what has been and what shall be and there they can’t just lay it out for us in a surface layer explanation, but you have to know the workings of the Jews and like like Nephi says, the manner of the things of the Jews in order to understand what kind of mythology or parables and things that we have and what those point to and how we cannot successfully or appropriately apply those to the future happenings,

00:52:17:02 – 00:52:48:09
Cameron
the apocalyptic literature, the prophecies of the future, trying to find that it’s on the top of page 37, but kind of mid paragraph. He says that it may be that they the the prophets wish to impress upon the minds of the people the fact that Satan, the great deceiver of mankind and the enemy to God, was as real and as menacing as the fiery serpent in the heavens, which they which have seemed capable of destroying the earth as well as mankind.

00:52:49:10 – 00:53:17:12
Cameron
Apparently the image was success. The imagery was successful for nearly every prophet since then has employed it, and that just brought in a whole bunch of new ideas to me that we are so inundated with Satan serpent imagery, right? Like that we can equate those even in primary level. Children can say that Satan is a serpent, but we know that he’s not.

00:53:17:12 – 00:53:45:09
Cameron
And so how these stories and and everything coming out and playing out in this type of a paradigm really helps to make sense of it. Like you said there, that Satan, the great deceiver of mankind, was as real and as menacing as that fiery serpent and that the ancients on the heavens. It makes sense to me.

00:53:45:09 – 00:54:16:11
Wendy
Yeah. And deceiving. I think that’s an interesting word to use in the context of all of these things. Why? Because, of course, he’s deceiving. But deceiving is he pretending to be something different? And it and then I think, well, okay. So I also equate, you know, the serpent as is often the bad guy, right. But in in the Garden of Eden when he was with and also with like Moses lifting circuit on a pole.

00:54:16:20 – 00:54:37:01
Wendy
Right. And it represents the serpent is actually supposed to be representing Christ. Yeah, it is twisting. It’s, it’s a anyway that’s how I see it. Like I say, Lucifer and the serpent is a deceiver because he’s not Christ. He wants to be the Savior.

00:54:37:01 – 00:54:37:10
Cameron
Yeah.

00:54:37:23 – 00:55:04:18
Wendy
And so. So in a way, it just makes me think of another level of that. Like. Like, just. Just because it’s a serpent, like, image doesn’t mean that it’s satanic. It could actually be something very holy. But Satan is just the same thing with saturnian symbols. There’s a lot of them that are used for evil. Yeah. When could there actually be power in those symbols?

00:55:04:18 – 00:55:08:05
Wendy
Maybe. I don’t know. But it’s just interesting to.

00:55:09:02 – 00:55:09:04
Cameron
Me.

00:55:09:21 – 00:55:18:05
Wendy
To remember that. That the Savior has all power and. And Satan wants to deceive things exactly.

00:55:18:16 – 00:55:50:23
Cameron
Like we have so many different images in our modern temples, right? Especially like Salt Lake, Nauvoo, Kirtland, those and those early one. Well, I mean, they all do, but especially with those, we see a lot of Saturn and and space type of imagery. Right. And yes, some people have erroneously said, oh, well, they’re kind of pagan. I mean, they’re they’re worshiping these like an upside down star and and different things.

00:55:50:23 – 00:56:16:03
Cameron
But but all creation is from God. And Satan is always trying to usurp. And so sometimes we associate negative images with it. But if we can push past that and look at the original intent of any symbol or sign it, it’s a great worth because the Lord will come and reveal certain things to us about the meaning behind those symbols and and things.

00:56:16:03 – 00:56:34:05
Cameron
And so it’s really fun to just, I don’t know, take a look around when, when we’re in or outside of a temple and thinking about the, the imagery that is being implemented and thinking about why and what to.

00:56:34:20 – 00:56:42:07
Wendy
Especially even like looking at like drone like images from higher up and looking at how it was laid out.

00:56:43:07 – 00:56:43:10
Cameron
The.

00:56:43:17 – 00:57:00:06
Wendy
The whole grounds, it’s like a hidden symbol that you don’t really think about because you’re in it. And sometimes when you’re in something, when you’re in a system, you don’t see it as a whole until you kind of get above it. You’re like, Well, look what it was. I was it was walking these paths all this time. I didn’t realize that this was.

00:57:00:17 – 00:57:23:05
Wendy
Anyway, it’s very, very interesting. Just that that concept I’ve been talking with my my students about did you know that the atmosphere of the earth extends out and includes the moon? Like there’s this breaking news topic, but they couldn’t see it until they got somebody actually theorized about it. But it was shut down for a couple of decades.

00:57:23:05 – 00:57:44:11
Wendy
But the exosphere, we have this exosphere that goes way out in space. But but satellites. But then when they got out there and they’re able to look back, they saw the low around not just the earth extended out to the moon that the exosphere did. And so they’re like, wow. So like, man has never literally left the Earth’s atmosphere.

00:57:45:18 – 00:58:13:23
Wendy
But I mean, we didn’t see it because we were inside the system. Right. And it’s so hard to see things within system. We are in a family system and you’ve got issues and you know, you’re like, I don’t understand why when I do this, you know, this happens. You’re pulling out, you know, and it’s like, okay, once we step back and get outside the system, that’s why everybody needs if they’re having family issues, they need somebody outside the system to look in and say, okay, this is we will have to change the whole system.

00:58:13:23 – 00:58:29:08
Wendy
You can’t just change one person inside the system or else we’ll just bounce right into plate back. And because you have to you have to work with the whole system and so on. I see. Hey, why did I go off on that? But anyway, the Lord needs to bring all of us back into us. We need to be Zion.

00:58:29:08 – 00:58:40:02
Wendy
We can’t just come back on our own. We have to come as a as a church in Zion people. Right. We’re not we’re all one system here anyway. So I said.

00:58:42:03 – 00:59:05:01
Cameron
I just like that’s one of my pastimes before any of the book clubs and cosmism and stuff is like temple architecture and all of that. Like I went and made it like a compilation of all of the aerial images of the different temples and their, their plots and everything, like we’re kind of spoiled in Idaho really, because some hours are some of the most intricate, like Idaho Falls.

00:59:05:01 – 00:59:27:00
Cameron
Your temple is like such an amazing aerial view. I used to think that Twin Falls is just kind of boring, but until I started looking at aerial views and looking at some of how that symbolism is is also mirrored inside. And like you were saying that that at the beginning, the plasma intertwining kind of imagery and stuff like it’s actually everywhere.

00:59:27:00 – 00:59:59:23
Cameron
It’s in a Scandinavian type of style or or design, but like the Lord works with the designers and the architects of these temples in such great and magnificent ways to have that symbolism. There. I’ve talked with a couple of different medical interns of of the the temple architects, and they didn’t really necessarily know some of the things that they were doing.

00:59:59:23 – 01:00:26:18
Cameron
They just knew that they were important and that they were inspired to incorporate some designs. But it’s the Lord’s in all the details, right? He’s he’s there to give us some of these signs, I guess, symbols for us to to be immersed in it. And then, like you said, we always have to change our paradigm. Look at it from above, look at it from the side, change your position and and see a whole new layer to two things.

01:00:27:19 – 01:00:59:03
Cameron
We you. Yeah. So along that line of the serpent and, and looking forward, etc. on page 38, he starts mentioning, let’s see, is this Isaiah 14 says The Book of Isaiah provides an excellent example of the importance of understanding the use of parable. Why, for example, would Isaiah refer to Satan as Lucifer, the Son of the Morning? That’s Isaiah 1412.

01:01:00:01 – 01:01:30:02
Cameron
It is the only time in the Scriptures that Satan has given the name Lucifer. The word literally means light bearer and almost all biblical scholars agree that the appellation refers to the planet Venus. And this is a quote from the new Spirit Smith’s Bible Dictionary says Likely the planet Venus as the Morning Star, which appears as the morning or and evening star, according as it is west or east of the sun, returning to the same position about every 18 months.

01:01:30:10 – 01:02:01:10
Cameron
It may thus be a harbinger of daylight. And so I’m kind of taking that and into the symbolism of Satan. And falling here, says Volokhonsky, is affirmation that Venus was the cause of most of the phenomena of the exodus may provide a clue a cue to Isaiah’s reference to the Morning Star as the central character in the 14th Chapter Latter-Day Saints understand that Isaiah is speaking of the fall of Satan before the world was.

01:02:01:19 – 01:02:23:16
Cameron
And while this is true, a close reading of the entire chapter also reveals that the Lord is predicting, through His Prophet, the fall of the King of Babylon. So Volokhonsky theses does not alter the meaning of Isaiah as we know it, but adds yet another level of the meaning. And so we were just peeling this onion, looking at it from from different angles.

01:02:23:16 – 01:02:33:16
Cameron
And anyway, it is interesting to take a look at the serpent and how that that imagery can be looked at from multiple angles here.

01:02:34:06 – 01:02:38:13
Wendy
The past and present for them.

01:02:39:05 – 01:02:39:09
Cameron
And.

01:02:39:11 – 01:03:10:24
Wendy
The future. Do you remember you read that in one of your book clubs didn’t you. With the they sa de the study of ritual literature. Yeah. Great compilation of of different Native American mainly not just American but native civilizations around the world. All of their their ancient habits. I’m not going.

01:03:11:07 – 01:03:47:05
Cameron
To look at when Christ died and visited all of his sheep and that this tradition, the same traditions are held around the world. So he’s kind of focusing on the indigenous of the Americas, the Hopi Indians, etc., but also that the four different skin colors that they always wrap that represent in their their their will with the four quadrants that the black, the red, the white and the yellow, they all have the same traditions and how they all kind of come together at the end times in order to, to build Zion and and usher in his second coming.

01:03:48:03 – 01:04:06:24
Wendy
And that they would know they were given things to know to look for. Right. But also later on, not a part of the ancient traditions, but in later on in that book, you talked about the I can’t remember her name, but it was a lady prophetess in the English Isles. British Isles. Sorry.

01:04:06:24 – 01:04:07:20
Cameron
How do you remember?

01:04:08:22 – 01:04:09:11
Wendy
What’s her name?

01:04:09:15 – 01:04:10:11
Cameron
Mother Shipton.

01:04:11:00 – 01:04:19:06
Wendy
That’s it. Mother Shipton. Do you remember one of the. One of the first times before all the calamities was the serpent in the sky? Yeah.

01:04:19:18 – 01:04:22:09
Cameron
I had forgotten that. Until now, I’m going to have to worry about part again.

01:04:22:18 – 01:05:06:19
Wendy
Isn’t that interesting? That it passed over so many times and I don’t know what days or months or, you know, how often something would orbit, but I just thought that was interesting. Just, you know, and to have have that with as I was thinking of that with all this coming up, you know, but we if we see something like that, though, it’s like, you know, it’s we can also look at it in terms of Christ right coming and can and one of the paradigm things I had to wrestle with was like, well, if Christ represented Venus bringing in the children of Israel out of bondage, right, then why is then then Venus represented a second

01:05:07:02 – 01:05:34:17
Wendy
tier too? Why are they seen as too? I mean, they’re not the same person but the planet, then it just changes from one, you know. And then the in the solar and the planetary alignment polar configuration, the I mean Venus was very stable. It was, you know, in some sense, I think that’s the the divine feminine in a lot of ways.

01:05:35:03 – 01:06:05:01
Wendy
But anyway, so I’m like, she just changes all the time and, and doesn’t represent Christ. But somebody said to me, you know, you just have to remember that it’s our archetypes that point to two different like parables that point to different lessons. And that is not that. That is Christ or that is same, but that they are, they’re representing signs to help us to be prepared or to to look to him.

01:06:05:01 – 01:06:28:13
Wendy
Right. Or to understand our relationship with him, to understand and ask about divine doctrine that can’t be communicated other than through revelation and right. And so but anyway, that was one thing that I wrestled with. But as this morning when I was thinking about this podcast, I was asking the father again about, you know, what, what is that?

01:06:29:16 – 01:06:55:20
Wendy
And how how can I understand that better? What came to my mind was just difficult, difficult times in my life where I’ve been in pain, where I felt like I was in in prison. Right. And captured in that Satan’s ruling over me or whatever in some degree. Right. That I almost see like Satan in my life. But he’s like, but in those moments, did you not hear my and was that not a temple prison?

01:06:56:12 – 01:07:16:06
Wendy
Like Elder Holland said about jails dismissed experience like denied not sanctify that to your good now are you you learned about me and so many things because of that. So did you not see my hand in that? And I’m like, yes. So even though Satan’s the great deceiver and even though it looks like chaos and that’s what’s going on, thought is still in charge.

01:07:16:13 – 01:07:21:06
Wendy
And he works all of it to our good and we can still see him in all of it. So that makes sense.

01:07:21:24 – 01:07:22:11
Cameron
Totally.

01:07:22:20 – 01:07:37:08
Wendy
So that’s something that I just wanted to share from my my study with him this morning and what he helped me to see. Another layer of that we can we can praise him and be grateful for him, grateful for all the things that we have because they come from.

01:07:38:03 – 01:08:11:04
Cameron
Mm hmm. Yeah. I love that. As I have been reading and taking a look at that that exodus and and the subsequent idolatry of the golden calf, I think that that is where what you just said really has opened my eyes in my my own personal quest for things, in the fact that when God delivers me, am I looking to worship out of fear, the sign that that he employed in my aid?

01:08:11:04 – 01:08:50:17
Cameron
Or am I turning directly to him and and always pushing Satan the deception? Or am I looking at the true source and giving gratitude to the proper deity and and avoiding idolatry in my life kind of thing? I think that that is just one of the main themes of my life, because I really want to always beware of of pride and idolatry and, and make sure that I’m always rooted firmly in the correct God and, and looking at him how he presents and helps us in every aspect of our journey.

01:08:50:17 – 01:09:12:03
Cameron
So I really appreciate what you said there that because Satan’s always there to deceive, right, with any of the prophets and and their grand visions of everything, Satan’s right on the hills or, even sometimes beforehand, looking to to deceive with very cunning ways.

01:09:14:24 – 01:09:24:04
Wendy
In opposition and all things. Right. And then the sense is he’s working. God’s plan out, not out. But he’s, he’s yeah, he’s part of the plan.

01:09:24:22 – 01:09:40:10
Cameron
So. Yeah, exactly. So anything else in this chapter that really stood out? I think I’ve got all my notes here and I’m just like, I can’t remember which ones. I’ve heard which ones, but anything else to mention.

01:09:41:05 – 01:10:04:21
Wendy
You know, Venus is a really interesting planet. It does it does not follow a lot of the same a lot of the things that we thought it would be. And then we’ve got then we’re like, wow, this is quite a we heard planet. Like when when science caught up to it. You know, Bill Cosby predicted a lot things about Venus that would be hot.

01:10:04:21 – 01:10:27:00
Wendy
And we did not as a as a people as a modern day people did not think it would be so as a scientist. So anyway, it’s it like you can go look it up and study it, but it’s got more similarities to Titan, a moon of a Saturn than than a planet, like other planets. It’s really, really strange as a planet.

01:10:27:15 – 01:11:04:12
Wendy
So, so anyway. But yeah. Where it’s it’s kind of lost it. It was in one, one stable state lost that stability and raged through the heavens and then found another stability in its current orbit. I don’t know when we look at these things and there they’re saying, you know, these are prophecy past, present and future. And we think about the the planets and the heavens are currently stable, but I don’t think they always be so.

01:11:05:24 – 01:11:12:12
Wendy
So when that’s one thing to you know, I think as we study these things, it’s just adding oil to lamps.

01:11:13:15 – 01:11:13:22
Cameron
So.

01:11:14:01 – 01:11:42:20
Wendy
That we can be better prepared. In the last days. Let’s see. Anything else. But yeah, his interpretation of, you know, I guess that Venus is, is narrowly looked upon now, you know, and now it’s one interpretation of that scripture that is cast down from heaven and known as and in his grave, so to speak. But but I wonder if that’s also great is just a prophecy for the last days as well.

01:11:42:20 – 01:12:10:13
Wendy
If we can’t take that interpretation and say we don’t know what it’s going to look like, but if Satan tries to come again and deceive and be a savior for mankind somehow, and that then he’s brought down to the sides of the pit and sealed up right like like it says in revelation that we can trust that God will work all those things to our good and we just remember that the past is key to the future.

01:12:10:13 – 01:12:39:20
Wendy
I like that last one as we study the past that we can help us to understand the future. Isaiah is amazing in that the more I study it with this context, I challenge you to go through and read it looking for the glory of God in Scripture, not just for planets or things. Just where is His power? And His power comes from, comes from from heaven and he has arm is revealed and and it will be again.

01:12:39:20 – 01:12:42:20
Wendy
So I think that’s all that I have.

01:12:43:14 – 01:13:12:23
Cameron
Yeah. I love I love Anthony’s last line there says Prophecy is a parable for modern. And as we looked at the parable structure and everything here that studying prophecy is so important if we want to be prepared for the last days and like you said, taking a look at a scripture, whether it’s Isaiah or any others, and going where is God in this and how might he manifest his power?

01:13:12:23 – 01:13:19:21
Cameron
There? I’m going to quote it again. Prophecy is a parable for modern man. I just love that.

01:13:21:13 – 01:13:48:08
Wendy
Awesome. Oh, there’s one more thing. Can I just interject with these things that we see in the sky, like a drama that our, our, our ancient ancestors saw. But these dramas in the sky is almost like if we can think of it, as in terms of the temple drama and remember that they’re just, it’s just dramas that are meant to teach us something, not to pick it up for me.

01:13:48:08 – 01:14:21:20
Wendy
I, I just try to find the similarities, like you said, with the patterns, but they’re just archetypes and they teach truths and patterns at every level, and they’re aligned to do so. So that whatever you look at or when you’re seeing or studying, those things are going to the temple that we we see the Lord bringing order to chaos and light to darkness and bringing that to bringing form and function back to and restoration but to an organization back to us and restoring us unto him.

01:14:22:05 – 01:14:28:06
Wendy
So anyway, I, I think of that temple drama in the sky and it just reminds me of the temple of the temple drama.

01:14:29:02 – 01:15:12:06
Cameron
So yeah, correlations are so sort of thing. So yeah. Thank you for, for joining us on chapter four. Next time we’ll be looking at Chapter five, which is Book of Mormon and catastrophizing and kind of diving into some scriptures there with how this all relates in some of our restoration of Scripture. So again, if you have any comments or questions, corrections, ideas for us, drop those in the comment box there at the bottom of learning icon slash cosmism and we’ll be sure to take a look at those in approach those as we do this podcast week.

01:15:12:13 – 01:15:14:15
Cameron
Thank you all for listening and have a great week.

00:00:00:12 – 00:00:24:06
Cameron
Hi and welcome, Wendy. And I just want to express our gratitude for all your lovely encouragement and ideas as we start discussing cosmism and planetary Close Encounters as it relates to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I’m completely new to all of these ideas and theories, whereas Wendy has a good couple of years on me, but together we hope to spark conversation and serve as a guidepost to greater resources as we all prepare for the second coming.

00:00:25:00 – 00:00:51:24
Cameron
In these discussions, we are starting by having a book discussion of Anthony Larson’s trilogy. These three books give a great primer to Volokhonsky as paradigm shifts. We are so excited that you are interested and willing to go on this journey with us. And with that, let’s jump into today’s episode. All right, everyone, welcome back for chapter five. This chapter is called The Book of Mormon and Catastrophizing.

00:00:52:07 – 00:01:25:00
Cameron
So as we dove in, just referencing a couple of the comments that people have made from listening to the podcast this week, this one is sent to us by Flora. And she says that a surprisingly good synopsis of the electric universe comes from Eileen McHugh, which hopefully I’m pronouncing that right. She says she approaches it from the perspective of how the electric universe affects our health, and she has a way of explaining the complexities of thunderbolts in a way that I can get it to quite easily.

00:01:25:08 – 00:01:50:07
Cameron
She spoke at their conference a few years ago, and and that video is on YouTube. And she’s also included another link to to take a look at at her work and entrance into cosmology. So I’ll put those links and and that in the show notes and and feel free if you have ideas or links that you would like to to send us and the other listeners of the podcast.

00:01:51:14 – 00:02:14:10
Cameron
Feel free to send those to me and we’ll read them in our podcast and put those in the show notes. We’re so grateful for everyone that takes the time to to help us in our learning journey as we are going through. Anthony Larson’s works here and learning and growing in and how God works with us through the cosmos.

00:02:15:03 – 00:02:47:06
Cameron
So with that, let’s let’s kind of dove into chapter five here. The Book of Mormon and Catastrophizing. This chapter highly focuses on the the events at the time of Christ’s crucifixion and a little bit about his birth in the Americas and how that transitions into our canon of Scripture and and things that we might learn and grow as we are looking at it from from that perspective.

00:02:49:02 – 00:03:36:24
Cameron
So I think it’s interesting this this first part here, he quotes from first Nephi chapter 19, verse 11. And for this speak the prophet, the Lord God surely shall visit all of the house of Israel at that day, some of his voice, because of which just said, sorry, let me start that scripture over. I think I misquoted. So it starts off here quoting first and if I 19 verse 11 for this spake the Prophet, the Lord God surely shall visit all of the house of Israel at that day, some with His voice because of their righteousness unto the great joy and salvation, and others with the thunder and the lightnings of his power.

00:03:36:24 – 00:04:03:22
Cameron
By tempest, by fire, by smoke, and by vapor of darkness, and by the opening of the earth and by mountains which shall be carried up. And I thought that that was super interesting with the fact that he’s talking about a whole group of people. It says that the Lord God shall visit all of the house of Israel, but there’s going to be two distinct groups, some with his voice because of their righteousness and the others with all of the other.

00:04:04:05 – 00:04:34:23
Cameron
And so I have to wonder if that’s going to be a mirror or a pattern of the second coming. And when he does come again, is that all of the House of Israel will be visited. But some this way and some that way. It was something that I hadn’t really considered specifically in light of catastrophizing there. But anyway, any thoughts or introductory things as we we dove into this chapter, Wendy, that you’d like to bring out.

00:04:35:04 – 00:05:01:13
Wendy
Just that I really love doing this podcasts and thank you for sharing them with me. Cameron And for everybody that listens, it’s, it’s not perfect. I’m sure you heard me talk to my daughter cause I’m trying to get a charging port or something, but, yeah, I’m a mother of seven kids, and. And the things like happen. But anyway, I really wanted to share with you just something I was praying about about an hour ago.

00:05:01:13 – 00:05:22:11
Wendy
And I was wanting to get confirmation from the Lord that that he was pleased with what we were doing and if there was anything that he wanted us to or me to do differently, because I haven’t been able to give this the full focus and attention originally that I wanted to do. I’ve been I’m a very busy mother and my husband is disabled.

00:05:22:11 – 00:05:49:14
Wendy
So even though he stays home with my daughter like 4 hours a day while I teach, like I get home and he’s exhausted. And so like I do everything else. And so, like, I haven’t and I’m sorry, I’ve been able to like, really like, prepare, but but the Lord comforted me and he gave me like, like like he’s pleased and he gave me this scripture and DC 88, which I read the whole section and it’s just so great.

00:05:49:15 – 00:06:10:15
Wendy
I love talking about the glory of God and like and, and also that’s a chapter that we kind of went into when you were doing the book club about the the school, the prophets, right? Yeah. Anyway, but Dancy, 77 and I give in to your commandment that you shall teach one another the doctrine of the kingdom. And that’s what I want to do.

00:06:10:15 – 00:06:33:22
Wendy
That’s what that’s what you want to do. Cameron Right. I want to talk about doctrine. We want to talk about truth, about Christ. And it says, teach you to me and my grace shall attend you. What a promise that you may be instructed more perfectly and theory in principle, etc. And then 79 of things for teaching, of things pertaining of things both in Heaven and in Earth and under the earth.

00:06:34:02 – 00:06:55:15
Wendy
Things which have been, things which are and things which must shortly come to pass and etc.. And I was and I was just so grateful to know that, you know, that we’re doing our best. I’m grateful you guys are all very kind and in your comments and that together we’re going to construct a more perfectly through the spirit because that’s who teaches us so.

00:06:57:03 – 00:07:40:20
Wendy
And one other item before we jump in, I just wanted to if we could put this in the links. Cameron If anybody wants to look at there’s a PDF online, a free PDF that’s called a synopsis of the electric Universe by Wolf Thornhill. And it goes through several different points. I’m looking at how many are numbered here. I think it goes through, you know, there’s only like what, less than 20 pages and it’s just very, very clear and concise and the purpose of a purpose of what they’re trying to do at Thunderbolts as a group of scientists now they are atheists, but I mean, I don’t know.

00:07:41:01 – 00:08:02:16
Wendy
I don’t know personally how, but they don’t talk about God per se in that in their investigations. It’s science. But I know and I’ve always felt, even as a scientist myself, that science and religion are going to come to the same conclusions just in different ways, and that both can be used as witnesses to to bring about truth.

00:08:03:11 – 00:08:27:24
Wendy
And so I just wanted to read just a little bit of their preface here, but it’s so good. So I hope you go and read it because sometimes we get into thunderbolts and there’s so much information and this is very helpful. They stop, they say, starting out with a little quote from H.P. Lovecraft, The most merciful thing in the world is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents.

00:08:27:24 – 00:08:55:12
Wendy
The science of the sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little. But someday, the piecing together of disassociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality. When all these things come together, we see the glory of God in it, right? That we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age, which we don’t want.

00:08:55:12 – 00:09:20:12
Wendy
Right. We need we want to have we want to have a a paradigm that’s connected through all the sciences. And so down here says a little further, this introduction of this synopsis of the electric universe will present a new, quote, deep focused lens, unquote, for for viewing the physical universe from subatomic particles to galactic realms, unknowns from the Hubble telescope.

00:09:21:01 – 00:09:50:07
Wendy
The electric universe is a holistic answer to myopia. Oh, I love that use of that word. Right? President Nelson just popped up by that narrowing of vision, which naturally accompanies the fragmentation of knowledge and learning. And I just love truth so much. I want to teach this to my kids at school. For those with the courage to see clearly the required unlearning of fashionable ideas carries no real cost whatsoever.

00:09:51:00 – 00:10:21:18
Wendy
The terror Lovecraft envisioned is only the first rush of uncertainty when ideas long taken for granted are thrown into question by facts and simple reasoning. Previously ignored the quote Piecing together of disassociated knowledge will only require us to confront the deep contradictions in things experts have long claim to know with the courage to see clearly, the adventure itself could well be the most merciful thing in the world.

00:10:22:08 – 00:10:49:02
Wendy
Adding new insights into the greatest dramas of early human history and vital perspective to humanity’s situation in the cosmos. Truth is always unified, and as such, it can only be friendly to those who seek the truth. First, as we pass through the door, it is not fear that goes with us, but the exhilaration of discovery. And we are discovering the Lord.

00:10:49:02 – 00:11:07:15
Wendy
We’re discovering how He works among the children of men. We’re discovering His covenants. We’re discovering who we are, who we are, and where our places in the universe and where we’re going to be and where we’ve been. Right? So anyway, I just wanted to read that, give you a little bit of taste of what that’s in there. So I hope people like it.

00:11:07:23 – 00:11:12:24
Wendy
So that’s kind of my preface to what we’re going to be here. What I wanted to add.

00:11:14:03 – 00:11:32:07
Cameron
Yeah, thank you so much. That was awesome. I haven’t read through that whole thing there, but I did read that first part, that synopsis, and it just it just resonates right when when you receive truth that there’s, there’s something physical about it, right?

00:11:32:07 – 00:11:36:05
Wendy
Organizing. Right, organizing. That’s that’s creation.

00:11:36:24 – 00:12:09:03
Cameron
You know, I love it. So it’s interesting the perspective and things we learn from the Book of Mormon accounts and prophecies of Christ Crucifixion. A lot of what we have comes from similarly directly some of the quote here from believe it was in the book of Human wasn’t not true anyway. So somewhere there we’ll get to it when it isn’t.

00:12:09:12 – 00:12:48:00
Cameron
Oh yeah. Human 12. But it’s just always amazing to me that it’s been there all along. I just didn’t have the eyes to see it at the time. But now that I have a different paradigm shift, that the scriptures are just being unlocked in so many ways, and I’m super excited to kind of go through a New Testament this year and possibly Book of Mormon the next year if they keep on the same schedule, really focusing in and honing in on this book that that first block of of scripture there on page 46.

00:12:49:07 – 00:13:22:12
Cameron
This one comes from Hillman 14 and oh, this is the semi the limit at one. But that was the reference was the healing. And that’s where I was looking at it right? Some of the things that really stood out to me that I had never really paid attention to before or considered, I guess was says that the rocks which are upon the face of the earth, which are both above the earth and beneath which, you know, at this time are solid, or the more part of it is one solid mass shall be broken up.

00:13:23:07 – 00:13:53:14
Cameron
Yay! And they shall be rinse in twain and shall ever be found in seams and in cracks and the fragments of the the face of the whole earth here, both above the earth and beneath. And anyway, I was just kind of looking in a new light with, you know, from, from the Bible, the days of Peleg and and one solid mass kind of thing versus the catastrophes that are happening on the entire planet during these different things.

00:13:54:11 – 00:14:28:20
Cameron
So where it it talks about, it could just be volcanic activity, but it could be cosmic interactions or planetary encounters. So what is your opinion after having read this chapter and and the different time that you’ve spent in this area of things, what’s your opinion on what has happened and and the changes wrought on the Earth when, when Christ is is killed?

00:14:28:20 – 00:14:40:20
Cameron
And those the discrepancies between days of darkness versus hours of darkness, etc.. So anyway. Yeah, what’s your opinion on that.

00:14:40:20 – 00:15:06:24
Wendy
I, I never imagined that it was because of that interaction with the heavens that it could be a cosmological or something happening in the heavens that would cause those things. I mean, we kind of see a little bit of that with the birth of Christ, you know, that there’s things happening in the heavens. But then they don’t talk about a lot of physical destruction at that time.

00:15:07:03 – 00:15:35:14
Wendy
We do. And I’m not sure if this is the case or not, but we do hear that, you know, many people fell down, especially those that did not believe. And I don’t know if that’s because of shaking or earthquakes or anything. I don’t know anyway. But but it’s kind of like two different instances there of of Christ birth and then his death, which are very important and very symbolic and very, very good.

00:15:35:14 – 00:16:07:08
Wendy
You know, that there would be a sign of that of his birth and his death. But, you know, with this paradigm shift, like you said, I like that that that’s exactly what it’s like, is and reading this again, it just it just tastes good just to say it just it it’s something that resonates with me. And I love the word resonate, too, because it’s like, hey, that’s that’s what light is.

00:16:07:08 – 00:16:35:24
Wendy
It’s it’s vibration. And it, when it resonates with it, but it’s like creating, you know, it’s like you said, it’s physical, but it’s it just it helps me come closer to God and and just it’s another witness of him that that it’s more than just our small little us or small little earth. It just expands my mind to to know that he’s in charge and he’s his power is over the whole earth.

00:16:35:24 – 00:17:05:03
Wendy
And then he loves his son and his hand is going to be revealed. So but anyway, I want just one other thing that kind of came to me during this. I didn’t realize that during this time as I was reading Phil, this is Anthony’s work, not bellicosity. Of course not. Not Anthony talking about them. His work is a lot of what we did in the first four chapters because it was not, you know, a Latter day Saints.

00:17:05:04 – 00:17:30:15
Wendy
And but anyway, one thing that I learned was that there was not a just I mean, just went but that disturbance in the rotation of the Earth, like in other times, there was kind of a slowing down or, you know, or going backwards, you know, I heard of that and has a fire or the sun stopping Joshua and and whatnot.

00:17:31:01 – 00:17:55:05
Wendy
But that time continued and that was enough. And it was very quick and it was in the sense that there was a passing body probably, but it wasn’t as big as Venus or wasn’t. It didn’t last, you know what I mean? It was a relatively short time for 3 hours, but it still had significant significance. Of course, results.

00:17:55:08 – 00:18:00:12
Wendy
So yeah. Anyway, so that’s kind of what I learned during it. I really enjoyed it.

00:18:00:20 – 00:18:30:07
Cameron
Yeah. So quoting from Anthony here, it’s there on page 46 about all of that. It’s interesting that this is included in the Book of Mormon and and why include those small details if they’re not important? Anthony he says he made it clear, referencing Samuel, that there would be no disruption of the Earth’s rotation. Quote, for ye shall know of the rising of the sun and also of its setting.

00:18:30:15 – 00:18:49:14
Cameron
Therefore they shall know of a surety that there shall be two days in a night. Nevertheless, the night shall not be darkened, and it shall be the night before he is born. End quote. And that’s from a film in 14, four through five. And again, it’s just like it’s been there all along. But I didn’t realize that that was an important context clue.

00:18:49:14 – 00:19:13:14
Cameron
And and what was happening so emphasized in that there is a difference between the events accompanying the birth and death of the Savior and those of formal eras like the Exodus. When we talked about that the Earth’s rotation had been halted, the ones that you had mentioned there, and that the God is working in different ways and this one is has a marked difference.

00:19:14:00 – 00:19:45:15
Cameron
Anyway, that was that was very mind blowing for me. I just want to have all the time in the world and go back and look at the scriptures from every single angle and look at some of these these paradigm shifts that that are happening. I think it’s important to note also that with all of these accounts quoting from page 47 here, that the neophytes had never experienced the type of cataclysm which occurred at the time of the crucifixion.

00:19:46:05 – 00:20:15:24
Cameron
And I think that that’s pretty common all throughout the Book of Mormon. They’re always saying that this is the worst battle that’s ever been had or this is the this the phenomena that are happening are the worst that had ever been had. There’s there’s lots of firsts throughout the Book of Mormon. Let’s see, I was going to quote like the scripture, but he just references second Nephi 25, five and third, Nephi eight five.

00:20:16:09 – 00:20:37:15
Cameron
Well, yeah, let me read that one, three, five, eight, five. And it came to pass in the third and fourth year. In the first month. On the fourth day of the month, there arose a great storm such as one as had never been known in all the land. And so just pointing that they’re experiencing these things in in new ways.

00:20:37:15 – 00:20:51:00
Cameron
And as we are looking forward, what things are going to follow the pattern, what things are going to be new and more prominent or prolific than than ever before? It’s just so interesting to consider.

00:20:51:09 – 00:21:20:13
Wendy
Yeah, that was actually I just wanted to just read a little portion of this synopsis where it talks about electric weather because I mean, we think of great storm, right? It’s like there’s it’s something that’s you know, coming from climate change, El Nino or Nino. And, you know, there’s there’s a lot of stuff that, you know, as a scientist, there are so many effects.

00:21:20:13 – 00:21:41:20
Wendy
There is change of the climate like it’s happening. The Earth is warming. I just can’t I’m not going to consume the fact that that it’s our fault, honestly. I mean, I’m sure we should be better stewards, but I mean, I think there’s a lot of stuff that goes into that propaganda. Okay, so let’s can I just read a little bit about electric weather?

00:21:42:09 – 00:21:42:13
Wendy
Yeah.

00:21:42:23 – 00:21:45:13
Cameron
Are you reading this from that Thornhill document?

00:21:45:19 – 00:21:46:04
Wendy
Yes.

00:21:46:05 – 00:21:47:03
Cameron
Okay. Gotcha.

00:21:47:15 – 00:22:09:03
Wendy
Okay. Most people are unaware that we have no understanding of how lightning is created in clouds. The simplest answer is that lightning is not generated there at all. Clouds merely form a convenient path to earth for electricity originating in space. The sun gives off so much energy. And I mean, we are receiving so much of that that lightning.

00:22:09:03 – 00:22:44:17
Wendy
And the I mean, it’s there’s there’s going to be energy coming from the sun and there’s a interesting so sorry. It’s not not in this room. You’ve got to go out to smell anyway about the atmosphere, how there’s different electrical phenomena in different layers of the atmosphere. Let me go on with this. Consequently, the sun has weather patterns and the most distant planet, Neptune, has the most violent storms in the solar system, though it receives very little energy from the sun.

00:22:45:00 – 00:23:16:08
Wendy
Electric discharges from space cause Mars, huge dust devils and planet wide dust storms. So they are responsible for Jupiter’s great red spot in the spokes of Saturn. Well, there’s so many storms on Jupiter that just I mean, we are connected in ways more than just receiving the sun’s thermal energy. Mm hmm. And there’s an electrical connection there. It is why Venus has lightning and its smoke like clouds and its mountaintop glow with the St Elmo’s fire.

00:23:16:16 – 00:23:38:19
Wendy
It is why the earth has lightning stretches into space in the form of red sprites and blue jets and why tethered satellites blow a fuze, etc.. I thought there was another little portion here about I think it was in the dust of a portion, but but anyway, so it says, however, nobody is trained to consider electrical energy input to weather systems.

00:23:39:08 – 00:24:00:19
Wendy
So with when you’ve got a huge amount, I mean, where where does all this energy come from? I mean, all these if the the current paradigm for the scientific, modern science world is that all energy just comes from the light of the sun. And if it’s if we’re in this constant state, then where are these huge storms coming from?

00:24:00:19 – 00:24:34:17
Wendy
Like they’re outside of our natural, natural. Even with climate change, it’s not going to there’s got to be an extra energy source that that’s causing them. So when I read all this, I’m like, there’s definitely something that’s there’s there’s more energy coming into the system here for the benefits that wasn’t there before, you know, and so you see, you look at these times throughout throughout history and looking about looking at what has happened in the history of mankind.

00:24:34:17 – 00:25:01:14
Wendy
And you see that there’s added energy throughout that, that the Lord is and His glory is upon the Earth. And it’s changing. There’s there’s something different and it’s changing things, right? There’s action. There’s something happening on to judgment or to salvation. But anyway, so when it talks about this great storm, I just wanted to pipe in about that.

00:25:01:14 – 00:25:30:20
Wendy
And then down here on the cataclysm replay, the account went in. This is Anthony’s book. The account tells of that which befell them in the day of that judgment. And there were exceedingly sharp light, such as never had been known in all the land, never been known exceedingly sharp lightning. And many great notable cities were sunk and many were burned and many were were shaken till the buildings thereof had fallen to the earth, and the inhabitants thereof were slain, and the places were left, left desolate.

00:25:31:17 – 00:26:13:08
Wendy
So. So something happened that is is outside of earth systems that I teach my kids. You know, there’s these Earth systems and sometimes we get some some cataclysms. But at not at the scale. And in fact, we are in technically the sixth extinction is that’s what everyone calls it with climate change, kind of like, hey, we’re in the sixth, sixth extinction where there’s been evidence of five other extinctions, like, okay, so if we put that in terms, I don’t know if this is true, but I’m thinking, okay, so ages of the earth, if there’s five there and then we’re just misunderstanding the timeline and we’re in the sixth one, that’s kind of cool to think

00:26:13:08 – 00:26:23:18
Wendy
about. Okay. And then the seventh, you know, between seven total dispensations, just saying, I’m sorry, I’m getting all sciencey. Let’s get back to the book.

00:26:24:24 – 00:26:53:10
Cameron
I love it. But you know, when he was quoting there in the third and final chapter eight, exceedingly sharp lightning such as never had been known in all the land that hit me in a new wave. Like I always just pictured it like, oh, yeah, it was just bad thunderstorms. No, this never had happened before. Like, and I really love how you brought that in, that there was more energy, more and more things being introduced into the system that are causing exceedingly sharp lightning.

00:26:53:10 – 00:27:19:08
Cameron
Sometimes thunderstorms can kind of be scary, right? You know, especially when it’s happening like right close. But but this is this is way beyond that. And to to change the face of the earth and and all of the catastrophes that are happening, it just made me view it in a totally different way. I, I don’t envy that at all, but I know that we’re going to see more things right.

00:27:20:13 – 00:28:04:23
Cameron
So I really love Anthony’s paragraph. Just below that, it says that although the destructions which befell the new fights do not conform in all particular to those described in the exodus. The similarities are many, and the pattern is identical. And so, as Samuel prophesied, there is no disruption to the Earth’s normal rotation, and neither was there a precipitation of red dust which turned the waters to blood, etc. But we do have the sun being blocked and great storms and tempests and kind of skipping down a couple of paragraphs says that the plague of darkness in Egypt at the time of the exodus is described by rabbinical sources in terms that are nearly identical to those

00:28:04:23 – 00:28:31:20
Cameron
in third Nephi to describe the destructions among the neophytes at the Savior’s death. Although these two events were separated by approximately 1500 years, there is a remarkable similarity between them. And so then he he kind of makes a case for was it another near collision? Was this a planetary encounter versus just a something that happened within our own system?

00:28:31:20 – 00:29:04:11
Cameron
Was there an external force that was happening here? So like we we talked about that. He says the fact that the Earth’s rotation was unaffected might be due to a smaller size of a passing body. And I can definitely see how that would play into that scenario. He says that Nephi stated that The Tempest did last for about the space of 3 hours, and this is a very short time compared to the events of the Exodus.

00:29:05:01 – 00:29:27:08
Cameron
And sorry, I’m like reading so much, but I think that there’s said interesting things in these paragraphs, he says. Note also that the effects of the disruption were hardly noticed in the old world, perhaps indicating that the intruder passed not only quickly but in sync with the Earth’s rotation so that it as to directly affect only one hemisphere.

00:29:27:24 – 00:29:29:16
Cameron
Nephi his comment that the destruction.

00:29:29:16 – 00:29:31:11
Wendy
He says in.

00:29:31:11 – 00:29:32:07
Cameron
Oh yeah go ahead.

00:29:32:17 – 00:29:55:07
Wendy
Well I would just say when he says the intruder he’s referring to the the body that’s passing that’s not part of Earth’s normal that laws and the kingdom that the Lord set up set us to be on. There’s something coming into and it’s intruding upon the system here. Who’s that sense? Okay, sorry. Go ahead. Yeah.

00:29:56:01 – 00:30:21:08
Cameron
Um, and then the kind of final idea on that, that the destruction is described in the north, far worse than in the south. And so I think both of those things are very interesting to think about because I had wondered about that growing up. Like, why does it say when Christ died that the old world and the new world were experiencing it on different time frames and what could that possibly be?

00:30:21:13 – 00:30:41:14
Cameron
And this just kind of really opened up my eyes to, oh, a planetary encounter might be the way to help answer that and having the the discrepancies across the different prophecies or the accounts of it, I guess. Um.

00:30:42:03 – 00:30:42:21
Wendy
Well the good.

00:30:44:14 – 00:30:51:07
Cameron
Yeah. So anything else kind of like in that section or along that, that train of thought?

00:30:51:07 – 00:31:20:22
Wendy
Let’s see. So let’s see. The, the New Testament describes the scene on the other side of the world following the crucifixion. And there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour, and the sun was darkened. And we know that the bell, the temple was rent in Twain. So there was a great earthquake and another, you know, storm or something going on, just not as bad as on the side of the earth.

00:31:20:22 – 00:31:30:12
Wendy
That was more in line with the other body, the intruder. So it.

00:31:31:02 – 00:31:55:05
Cameron
So yeah. Very interesting. I don’t know if this is a relevant question. Well, ALQUIST questions are irrelevant, right. But so if if it wasn’t as bad over in Jerusalem in the old world, but it was like pretty devastating over here. Like why? Because the Jews were the ones that in Jerusalem at the time were the ones that had actually killed the Savior.

00:31:55:05 – 00:32:21:03
Cameron
So why wouldn’t it be just the opposite? Why wouldn’t the new world have ramifications of it, but not necessarily the full enchilada that they’re experiencing versus Jerusalem? I had never really asked that question before, but I think that that’s very interesting to to pose, especially in light of third Nephi, when Christ is coming and visiting his other sheep over here.

00:32:21:15 – 00:32:48:08
Cameron
And sometimes the descent needs to match the ascent where the Jews had had killed their savior, and they’re not going to be receiving another manifestation of him or anything but the decent to prepare for the blessed encounter that Christ was going to be visiting them. I don’t know. It’s just a question that was popping in my head all of a sudden really.

00:32:48:08 – 00:33:20:00
Wendy
That’s a really good point. I mean, they were the most evil people on the earth, you know, the only people that would crucify their God. You know, they said so they were definitely ripe for destruction like that. Those that sect of Pharisees suggested. But maybe it wasn’t the whole people, but I guess let’s see, because I really believe that God is is is going to be just and when people are ripe for destruction, he prophesies to them.

00:33:20:00 – 00:33:44:05
Wendy
He says, you need to repent. You know, if they don’t, then he’s he his hand is basically forced. And so the people what was going there was like the Jacob, remember, the people in the north was not the people of Jacob, you know, the built the city of Jacob or Jacob or something like I can’t remember. Anyway, there was, there was a lot of wickedness in, on, on our continent.

00:33:44:05 – 00:33:50:12
Wendy
And so maybe that’s why the as a people, maybe the people there were, were ripe for destruction.

00:33:51:00 – 00:33:51:09
Cameron
Mm.

00:33:51:22 – 00:33:53:18
Wendy
So I know that’s a really good question.

00:33:54:03 – 00:34:25:22
Cameron
Interesting. And I’m sure as I go back and look, I might find those answers and things, but that I love questions as they pop up and like and you don’t look at that better. Um, so taking a look at the next section there that Nefyn made it plain so this is referencing Nephi, the son of human. He says that he made a very interesting statement concerning phenomena associated with the disruptions of the rotation of the earth.

00:34:25:22 – 00:34:51:15
Cameron
And I think that this really helped clarify a few things for me. So let’s see if this is from him in Chapter 12, eight through 15, he says, for behold, the dust of the earth moves hither and thither to the dividing asunder at the command of our great and everlasting God. Ye behold at his voice through the hills and the mountains trembling quake, and by the power of his voice, they are broken up and become smooth.

00:34:52:07 – 00:35:13:04
Cameron
Yet even like unto the valley, ye by the power of his voice doth the whole earth shake by the power of his voice Do the foundations of the rock, even to the very center ye. And if he say unto the earth move it is moved, and if he say into the earth, and thou shall go back, that it lengthen out the day for many hours it is done.

00:35:13:16 – 00:35:32:15
Cameron
And thus, according to his word, the earth goes back into the pure sentiment that the sun stands still. Yay and behold, this is so for surely it is the earth that moveth and not the sun and he always kind of looked at that going That’s kind of weird to be in the Book of Mormon, but, you know, whatever.

00:35:33:03 – 00:36:03:24
Cameron
But now it’s making a lot more sense of the I think the Book of Mormon is such a sealed book in and of itself, let alone the sealed portions that are going to come later on, but that we are under condemnation for not regarding the Book of Mormon in the light that it is intended, and given that it is a a religious text, it is a scientific text, it is it’s everything for us.

00:36:03:24 – 00:36:28:15
Cameron
If we have eyes to see the different layers and take time to really study things. But anyway, that that passage there from human is is starting to somewhat clarify some of the different science or unexplained things that I had questions about with cosmological relationships here. So anyway.

00:36:28:15 – 00:36:52:15
Wendy
Yeah, that is really and then just further down he goes into the rotation of the earth and I’d like to understand better what, what things are, are symptoms of or results from the rotation of earth being disrupted and ones that are are when that’s not disrupted, it’s just like a passing body that they experienced caused a cosmic intruder there.

00:36:53:02 – 00:37:15:03
Wendy
But he goes on to say, In all the scripture, there’s no better analysis of the geophysical and cosmological relationship seem to occur as the rotation of the earth is disrupted. And Anthony knows. I mean, he’s studied this stuff like most of his life. You know, in all of scripture, there’s no better analysis. Yes. That’s the Book of Mormon, you know, the most perfect book of that we have.

00:37:15:06 – 00:37:37:14
Wendy
Right. And it’s in there. And that’s really cool. And if I understood that the Earth’s rotation has been disrupted in the past, even he even lists it with other natural effects of disrupt disrupted rotation, i.e. rifts in the Earth’s crust, the collapse of mountains and earthquakes, resulting in the wrenching of the entire lithosphere, which less of the lithosphere here is the earth.

00:37:38:05 – 00:38:03:13
Wendy
You know, there’s lots of different spheres on the Earth, but that’s that’s referring to the Earth, which is interesting, because spheres within spheres within spheres is yeah, that’s some that’s some really cool cosmology there that has a lot of symbolic symbolism. But I also saw that geophysical and cosmological relationships because, you know, that’s what we’re trying to understand is our relationship to God.

00:38:04:01 – 00:38:28:08
Wendy
We’re trying to understand how he works, who he is, and how by the sound of his voice, I mean, not just the sound of his voice. His voice, but it it people like we investigated before. Is that a sound, right? Is that a trumpet we hear in the revelations, the trumpets or the 88 that I was reading today?

00:38:30:06 – 00:39:03:08
Wendy
The sound of the trumpet causes things to happen. Things will happen. You know, the Lord causes change and there is going to be an effect there. They have to start thinking in the scientific way. There’s energy added to that. But it’s he’s creating things. He’s he’s there’s a judgment there. And and you know I guess the right against the wicked and in favor of the righteous which we can have faith in when when he comes again.

00:39:03:15 – 00:39:25:20
Wendy
Right. And that we can also buy and can we buy his when we receive his word, can we utter his voice and and do his work? You know what I mean? In ways like this that Jesus said you’ll be able to do works like these and more, you know what I mean? It’s like, whoa, will we be able to to do his work when we when we are able to hear him?

00:39:25:20 – 00:39:49:20
Wendy
And he says, I want you to create a valley here so that my elders can get to Zion or whatever we need to do. Like will be will we be singing The Songs of Zion with sound that that is given to us in our hearts, that we are able to to call down, not just call down the power of God, but that His His His glory will be upon us and upon the Earth, you know what I mean?

00:39:50:01 – 00:40:09:07
Wendy
So it gives me the excited I mean, even though this is a lot of destruction and it’s sometimes you have to kind of deal with that emotional fear that comes up. It just will. And we have to instead turn to the Lord and in fear, worship him in it and and and wrestle with it in our relationship with him.

00:40:09:07 – 00:41:04:16
Wendy
We need to wrestle and be converted in our hearts instead of having any place for fear they’re right. And so I wanted to recommend a blog and it’s he’s also doing a podcast with Is it okay if I recommend him? Yeah. Okay. So I’ve been following Leland for a year. So Leland Tanner on Twitter and he does a couple of YouTube videos, but he started doing a blog called the A Cosmism Manifesto, and in his first to, I guess a thesis for what his thesis is mainly the first one was just the doctrines of the gospel about faith and repentance and really building a foundation on Jesus Christ, which is the foundation of Cosmism, which

00:41:04:16 – 00:41:25:19
Wendy
is really just our own theology, our theology and our relationship with God. Because even though we are all I think most of our listeners are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. We all have our own theology because we all have our own relationship with with God and with the Lord. And so we all have different gifts.

00:41:25:19 – 00:42:00:10
Wendy
We all have different missions. We have different experiences. Right? That we know him in ways that that are different, but we are all needed as so we’re all needed in Zion because of that. We’re all as one the body of Christ and the bride of of the Lord when he in our covenant. So, so anyway. So I really love how he focuses on that and before he starts getting into some of the deeper things and I really wish we could do that here in some ways and I try to kind of pull in and the doctrines of the gospel where we can.

00:42:00:10 – 00:42:21:08
Wendy
So we’re focusing on a text and doing things that are just jumping right in. But over there in the second one, he talks about as an engineer and how as we as we keep our eye, our eyes signal to the glory of God like keeping our thoughts constantly on Him, praying, always, you know, that will always remember him.

00:42:22:23 – 00:42:46:16
Wendy
So and then the third one is about the conversion of the heart. And anyway, so I recommend that to him. One of my my best friends she’s I’ve talked with her about cosmism and smashes like yeah, you know, I don’t have a witness that it’s not true. I think it is true, but it hasn’t really been a benefit to her her relationship with the Lord yet.

00:42:46:24 – 00:43:19:20
Wendy
But as she’s been going through telethons and stuff and we’ve been talking about it, she’s like, I think I’m getting it. She’s like, not just being she’s like, My relationship with the Lord is deeper than ever. And I see Cosmism in a different way because it’s about us being a satellite to a high king and that we are aligned to his glory and that we are temples and to him, you know, that his works are being done in and through quests for our ancestors and for this for the restoration of all things in our bodies as well.

00:43:19:20 – 00:43:41:12
Wendy
You know, we are going to be changed as well as the Earth. And so it’s a process that’s very personal. All these things are very personal and and I’m just thankful for the opportunity to share my testimony that Jesus is the Christ and he is our king and he is the king of hosts. And I love it when they use that phrase because I’m like, yes, he is.

00:43:41:12 – 00:44:01:23
Wendy
And this happens and he is mindful of us are even looking at other the James Webb telescope picture they there’s some that just came back again I think this week and just a new batch and I love looking through them. Maybe we can put another little link till there is a YouTube video that has a lot of the new pictures.

00:44:02:07 – 00:44:23:17
Wendy
So I’m just I’m just an off at his power and his mercy and his glory and how he so mindful of us and his work in his core is to bring to pass our salvation and that we are children of God. And so so anyway, I’m just so grateful for for all of you here, Cameron. For all you do.

00:44:23:24 – 00:44:27:21
Wendy
All right, so that’s all I have to say. Sorry, I’m taking over.

00:44:28:23 – 00:44:59:01
Cameron
Not at all. I love that. When we were talking about his voice and you were mentioning that, it kind of brought up some some different connections for me. So anybody following along in the book there on page 49 when he is quoting The Hellerman? Well, talking about the power of his voice and what you’re talking about, like the sound, the trumpets, the things that we talked about in chapter four, what the exodus and and what that means and looks like.

00:44:59:10 – 00:45:29:05
Cameron
But then going back to his very first scripture on page 45 here, so first Nephi, 1911, this, that, that voice was kind of similar and different. And I have questions now of the Lord God, surely I shall visit all of the House of Israel that day. But there’s two different groups, some with a voice, and because of their righteousness and some with thunder and power and lightning and earthquakes and stuff.

00:45:29:18 – 00:45:55:09
Cameron
And so it’s interesting that in this human one, it’s the voice that does do all of those things that causes the earth to shake, etc., so that there’s the voice is the one causing the things. But if we are righteous, or at least here with, with neophytes, that if they are righteous, they only have to experience the voice.

00:45:55:09 – 00:46:40:11
Cameron
And not all of the the ramifications of the different things. I mean, they are in the same place that are happening. All of the tempestuous things. But they they’re hearing the voice and the voice is the one causing it. It kind of reminds me of third. And if I when the voice repeated three times and they were trying to understand it but it wasn’t until the third time that they actually did that it became clear to them, I think that there’s a lot of just a whole side study just to do on the Voice and looking at that through Scripture, it’s cosmological implications as well as that spiritual ramifications in our own lives.

00:46:40:23 – 00:47:00:00
Cameron
Because like you said, there’s the there’s the macro version, but God works in patterns macro to micro that we need to go through these similar things and be righteous and have all of that rooted out, or else have the earthquakes and tempestuous things. In the last days you have.

00:47:00:10 – 00:47:06:13
Wendy
If we if we hear him, if we are tuned in to his voice, then we are going to be able to escape.

00:47:07:02 – 00:47:07:10
Cameron
Yeah.

00:47:07:21 – 00:47:34:15
Wendy
Right. Like spiritually survive else like in DC 88 that says for after your testimony, which is really what we’re trying to do here. We’re trying to testify of Christ, right? We’re trying to be the Lord’s hands like he’s asking these elders to do here in this chapter for after your testimony come at the testimony of earthquakes that so cause groaning in the midst of her and when and men shall fall upon the ground, I shall not be able to stand groaning.

00:47:35:11 – 00:48:03:09
Wendy
And throughout the Scripture, throughout the Book of Mormon, there’s so much reference to the Word of God, which is which is His voice. There’s so much. And even in the creation account, it comes up often. And in Hebrew and the reading, like the creation account in Hebrew and which I don’t know Hebrew very well, but I remember studying with just a couple like about a month on this about the Hebrew root and the TBR, the Hebrew root of it.

00:48:03:18 – 00:48:33:06
Wendy
There’s so many different root words that kind of come into this, that are funneled into this point that it’s the voice of the Lord, that that cuts and divides the center right, and that reaches and pierces our hearts and that that’s the changes. That’s right. That’s where conversion comes from. And then and can we can we be one with him in that?

00:48:33:09 – 00:48:46:01
Wendy
So anyway, I would love a whole study on that. But if there’s there’s things out there that do already have the study that maybe we could point to sometime, but we’ve already I already pointed to so many things. I don’t I we’re taking some.

00:48:46:01 – 00:48:48:06
Cameron
Of these links in the show notes for this is going to be awesome.

00:48:49:02 – 00:48:51:06
Wendy
So yes, I think it’s good to rein it in.

00:48:51:17 – 00:49:14:22
Cameron
It’s interesting. Just right before we started, I noticed that Rob K had posted a new video and I think I believe it’s the first in one of his new series, but it’s all about Book of Mormon and and the implications here. And I tell you what, he has a lot of cosmological stuff in that video that I was like, oh I wish I had time to watch the full thing before we delve into this one.

00:49:14:22 – 00:49:18:18
Cameron
But it’s on my my back burner for the rest of the day.

00:49:19:08 – 00:49:22:01
Wendy
How can you send that to me or put it in the links.

00:49:22:01 – 00:49:47:13
Cameron
Yeah, don’t put it in there. I mean it’s it’s amazing. I love looking at Rob Case. So his YouTube channel is called Mormon Yeshiva with a very Jewish background. He’s he’s pointing it forward to the Latter-Day Saints and kind of making connections there. So I always love his videos and kind of taking that that rabbinical approach to scriptures and things.

00:49:48:15 – 00:50:16:18
Cameron
Another thing that I would kind of point out is you can quote in DNC 88 and I’ve been for two or three weeks now really diving into DNC 84, the precursors to the oath and covenant and oh man, the power of his voice. The power of godliness is manifest in the ordinances. And we can’t do this without the the authority of the priesthood and the ordinances thereof.

00:50:17:01 – 00:50:57:15
Cameron
And and I have to wonder with all of the the coming tribulations and things, if not if, but like what, all of the ordinances and power and that that flow connectivity is, like, you say, satellites to a high king that that we become temples and satellites in order to to to bring about many of the the necessary things to get to Zion, whether that’s on a macro level or a micro level.

00:50:57:15 – 00:51:11:10
Cameron
But the ordinances are so important in order for God to actually manifest his power, his voice through us. Anyway, a DNC is so packed full of amazing things.

00:51:12:12 – 00:51:17:16
Wendy
Yeah. The priesthood chapter, right? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that’s so good.

00:51:18:14 – 00:51:44:12
Cameron
Yeah. I mean, I’m working at creating a separate thing just for DNC 84, because there’s so much in there that I’d never considered before, and it’s a whole nother side study. But I had never understood some of these different concepts the way that I’m learning them now. I always used to have like, mathematical equations with things like if light is spirit and spirit is this.

00:51:44:12 – 00:52:06:12
Cameron
And like I used to put if A equals B and be equal C, but the other day in the temple, I was trying to map out one of those kind of equations from the DNC. They’re from 84, and the Lord is like, it’s not an equals Y, you’re building a Venn diagram, not an equals. And I was like, Oh, I.

00:52:06:12 – 00:52:07:08
Wendy
Love that.

00:52:08:00 – 00:52:08:09
Cameron
Person.

00:52:08:17 – 00:52:27:15
Wendy
And so eventually the Venn diagram where there’s two circles that, that, that merge and then you have, you know, different similarities in the middle and then the things that they are characteristically have that are separate. But inside there’s that, that commonality I love.

00:52:28:05 – 00:52:54:18
Cameron
So all of A is B, but not all of B equals A and looking at that from a totally different perspective. So anyway, and like I said, with ordinances and powers and the voice and everything, it’s starting to all kind of come together. It’s amazing how the Lord tutors each of us in our own ways and times, and we just each have our own lesson plans that I.

00:52:55:14 – 00:52:56:17
Wendy
Know he’s trying.

00:52:57:00 – 00:52:58:06
Cameron
To teach us right?

00:52:58:06 – 00:53:16:18
Wendy
We’re just having a lesson plan for one class that takes so long. I don’t know how it that that. Oh just and C 84 where it says that the righteous let the knowledge of the Lord and shall see eye to eye and so lift up their voice and with the voice together, sing this new song and that has that new song.

00:53:16:18 – 00:53:33:17
Wendy
They’re like, Well, I’ll know it because be given to us and we’ll be able to sing it and be given the voice to sing it. I love it. And also satellite. I was teaching my kids the other day and like, okay, so the earth is a satellite, so the Earth is a satellite. I’m like, Yeah, like anything that orbits is a satellite.

00:53:33:24 – 00:54:05:04
Wendy
So when you think of orbit, really, are we in relationship to God? Are we willing to obey the high king and so on? And do you see it? It talks about how like if we are willing to. Well, whatever law we obey, that’s the kingdom that we will inherit, right? It’s whatever we are willing to abide in. And so if we are willing to abide by the high celestial kingdom law, then we are basically orbiting the Lord as a satellite to the high king.

00:54:06:03 – 00:54:33:09
Wendy
Can you see these things in perspective like, okay, so even though we’re on the earth, we are spiritually, energetically, even physically we are being created to orbit that orbit the Lord. And then that’s as we come closer and closer to Him, we see His face like we were brought into His presence and we’re transported like we might be physically in one sphere, but we’re really in another, you know what I mean?

00:54:34:04 – 00:55:01:12
Wendy
So yeah, it’s just really exciting to see the Lord bringing us all together and like he is, he is gathering his people on both sides of the veil and trying to bring as many is as welcome as we’ll hear. Because those that that mercy encompasses, those encompasses our own right, mercy, love, mercy. And so those that are merciful, well, the mercy encompassed them.

00:55:01:12 – 00:55:21:18
Wendy
And, you know, the just you know, those that are just us claim a throne, too. So we got to be careful that we’re just right. We don’t we want to stand on the side of mercy as much as possible and claim our own and those that merciful. We’ll hear his voice. So anyway and.

00:55:21:23 – 00:55:28:18
Cameron
Open. So anything else from chapter five that you think we need to to hit on and kind of wrap up with?

00:55:29:10 – 00:55:37:11
Wendy
Oh, we’ve done pretty I think it’s pretty good for for this Cameron and good luck to everybody praying for you.

00:55:38:01 – 00:56:05:07
Cameron
You know. Exactly. So next time we’ll we’ll tackle chapter six. And that chapter is Modern Prophecy Echoes of the Past. Oh, one other link for for homework. But somebody sent this in was that on the Anthony Larsen’s YouTube channel that he did a series doing an update for this book. And so there is a well for his trilogy.

00:56:05:07 – 00:56:22:14
Cameron
So there’s a lecture and a Q&A video called And The Moon Shall Turn to Blood. And so it’s about like an hour and a half to watch both of them. But he goes through this book and any updates that he had since he wrote the book and kind of addresses those so oh.

00:56:22:14 – 00:56:23:00
Wendy
Nice.

00:56:23:04 – 00:56:52:02
Cameron
Encourage going through the I haven’t actually timed it to go through those this week but that’s on my my to do list so that you know we are presenting the more updated information kind of thing as we’re we’re going through but anyway thanks for for everyone submitting questions and links and things as we discover this all together. But yeah, echoing when you said we’re so grateful for all of you and this journey that we’re on and we’ll see you on the next one.

00:56:52:23 – 00:56:55:23
Wendy
And happy holidays.

00:00:00:12 – 00:00:24:06
Cameron
Hi and welcome, Wendy. And I just want to express our gratitude for all your lovely encouragement and ideas as we start discussing cosmism and planetary Close Encounters as it relates to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I’m completely new to all of these ideas and theories, whereas Wendy has a good couple of years on me. But together we hope to spark conversation and serve as a guidepost to greater resources as we all prepare for the second coming.

00:00:25:00 – 00:00:43:16
Cameron
In these discussions, we are starting by having a book discussion of Anthony Larson’s trilogy. These three books give a great primer to Volokhonsky as paradigm shifts. We are so excited that you are interested and willing to go on this journey with us. And with that, let’s jump into today’s episode.

00:00:47:15 – 00:01:16:21
Cameron
Hi, everyone, and welcome back for another episode. So tonight, today, tonight, whatever. Whenever you’re listening to this, we are talking about chapter six in Anthony’s book. And so this one deals with modern prophecy. So it really hinges on one quote from Joseph Smith. And so this one’s an awesome one. Buckle up, because we’re going to kind of approach it from lots of different angles as we read through Anthony’s chapter here.

00:01:17:10 – 00:02:06:21
Cameron
So on that note, before we begin, my brain sometimes one of our listeners wrote to us and and I’ll share a couple more at the end of our podcast, but this one’s applicable right here before we begin. The fact that we’re treating this podcast much like a book club, this listener mentioned that they’re so lost in all of this new paradigm shift and it seems like we’re going very fast and kind of skipping over some of the key terms and they need a thesaurus and a dictionary to to look up everything that that we’re mentioning here so that being said, we we, me and Wendy are approaching this much like a book club.

00:02:06:21 – 00:02:46:04
Cameron
We assume that before you listen to any given episode of our podcast, that you are reading the chapter in Anthony’s book that more fully explained some of those key concepts and definitions. He explains it in such a good way in the book. And so taking that and and actually doing some homework and kind of mulling on it, tune it through the week before you listen to the the podcast with us because I don’t know, we’re both kind of pressed for time and so we’re we’re not going as a as a full kind of classroom teaching from introduction to to everything.

00:02:46:04 – 00:03:14:20
Cameron
We’re just diving in, right, with Anthony’s thing and providing commentary on it. It is my goal in the future to actually go back and somewhat provide a beginner’s guide or a glossary of terms kind of a thing, a helpful resource to do that, but that has not been created yet. So if you do feel lost or overwhelmed with some of the material that we’re presenting, make sure to to go and read Anthony’s book.

00:03:15:19 – 00:03:49:14
Cameron
There are you can purchase it there on Mormon prophecy dot com the e-book version of it or Amazon thrift books many different places well so very inexpensive copies as well as recordings here and there that you might find for free. So anyway, with that, I go back to my introduction of Joseph and and what why is Cosmism important to Latter day Saints?

00:03:49:14 – 00:04:00:24
Cameron
So how would you answer that question? When do you think why is it important to us and and our faith tradition and our preparation for the second coming?

00:04:00:24 – 00:04:27:12
Wendy
Oh, there’s so many different levels to this. And so one of the most obvious to me is, as we read about the last days and the calamities through all the standard works, whenever we’re we’re going through and learning, come follow me. Especially this year, it seems like almost every every week there’s some path that prophesied about the last days and it’s not a new thing.

00:04:27:12 – 00:04:42:03
Wendy
And it’s almost like we’ve heard it so much that we’re like, Yeah, it’s going to happen. And yeah, we have some fear about it, but we’re so excited to do the Lord, but we don’t know how it’s going to happen. So we just have to wait and see what kind of a feeling we don’t. We haven’t been given all the answers.

00:04:42:03 – 00:05:11:02
Wendy
But the thing is, is that if it’s there’s so much the Lord is telling us so many times and in so many ways there are connections in the scriptures that you can make with cosmology and with cosmism. And seeing that there are are interactions between cosmic bodies that cause these things and that the Lord is working in his heavens by in ways that we don’t currently experience.

00:05:11:08 – 00:05:43:06
Wendy
But they’re there in Scripture. If we open our eyes and pull our heads out of the sand and stop thinking that this that hasn’t been taught in Sunday school. So it no, it’s Joseph Smith talked about it and the early Saints he taught them some things that I don’t know we’ll get into it in this chapter, but there’s so many of his contemporaries that preached these things and it’s it’s been lost to us in our in our tradition and our faith tradition.

00:05:43:09 – 00:06:03:11
Wendy
So those things are going to be restored. And don’t we need to ask don’t we need to seek for us to receive answers? The Lord is not going to say, here’s something we need to ask. He never he’s not he’s not the kind of God that pushes himself on us. We have to be asking and wanting, right? We need to say, okay, I want to know what’s going to happen.

00:06:03:17 – 00:06:31:20
Wendy
So that’s one level. The other level is as tough as temple going people as a covenant people that we go to the temple, we need to see it in a deeper level that we don’t see it unless we understand these things. And it’s we can start to point out things and ways, but other ways is so sacred, it’s almost like the Lord needs to teach you it because it’s it it’s beyond words.

00:06:31:20 – 00:06:52:11
Wendy
Even though I don’t know if anybody’s frustrated with you. I don’t I hope you don’t feel like we’re dancing around the issue. It’s just it’s something personal. It’s about you building your own theology. Because even though we all are Latter day Saints, we all have a different understanding on our relationship with God. I think we went through that last time.

00:06:52:21 – 00:07:17:10
Wendy
So you have to do that. You have to do your work in this instance. Nobody can’t just listen to a podcast to get it. It’s got to be your own revelation that you receive about it and the Lord helping you with. And sometimes it might take a couple of times reading through the book or looking at other resources that we’ve we’ve put out there because I don’t feel like we should reproduce something that’s already there.

00:07:18:01 – 00:07:38:22
Wendy
So it’s, it’s, it’s just something that if you feel like there is truth in it, if you prayed about it, then you can do it. It’s just it’s not like it just has to be for smart people and it’s not because it’s a personal thing. So anyway, that’s kind of my take.

00:07:39:14 – 00:08:01:01
Cameron
Yeah, I’m on the side of things where I’m not the greatest scientific kind of person or natural laws and things like that. And so I immediately put it in the category of, Hmm, well, I’m not going to understand it all, so I’m going to try to at least related as much as I can in a symbolic fashion or whatever.

00:08:01:08 – 00:08:29:05
Cameron
But really, when you put it to the test, when you go to the Lord, he’ll start creating this curriculum or lesson plan for you and leading you in all the right directions, introducing you to the right people that will will provide the framework that that you might not have it. It’s interesting how learning can be such a Zion like activity because we’re all being led and guided in very different ways.

00:08:29:05 – 00:09:00:05
Cameron
And when we come together and put our heads together and our experiences and mesh those and weave them together, then it creates this rich understanding and anyway, yeah, I love that what you said. They’re just really being patient with it because it’s kind of that oil in the lamp type of preparation. It’s not something you can just share unless other people are equally putting forth effort and we’re coming together to weave it into one great whole kind of thing.

00:09:00:19 – 00:09:02:09
Wendy
Oh, yes. Beautiful.

00:09:03:03 – 00:09:33:03
Cameron
So as I was preparing for this one, I was going back over video number one of Anthony’s lessons there on Mormon prophecy dot com and this screenshot really stood out to me as far as scriptural blindspots. So he talks about them in the fact that when we come upon these in Scripture, we just go, Hmm, cool. That’s over my head.

00:09:33:03 – 00:10:08:10
Cameron
Moving on so much like John Pontius said in his books, that any time that you come upon something that you don’t know or that it is just beyond your current paradigm or framework, then that is one of the mysteries. And and if it’s been revealed to you as a mystery, then the Lord, the Spirit and the they’re basically telling you that you’re ready for it if it’s being introduced to you, if you’re finally seeing it going, Huh?

00:10:08:10 – 00:10:40:21
Cameron
I wonder what that is. Now then it’s something to unlock and it requires effort. And so kind of taking that to that framework here and looking at the scriptural blindspots that Anthony poses, we have Joshua’s long day and he has a whole YouTube video on on most of these here. But the Exodus events, revelations, symbols, Isaiah’s prophecies, Ezekiel’s vision, Daniel’s vision, Zachariah Joel, pretty much the whole of Genesis second, Peter Matthew 24 DNC 133.

00:10:40:21 – 00:10:52:14
Cameron
DNC 88. DNC 45. The Book of Abraham The Egyptian Facsimiles and Joseph Smith’s Words, which we’ll tackle part of today. But I look at all of those going.

00:10:53:00 – 00:10:53:07
Wendy
Hmm.

00:10:53:16 – 00:11:17:16
Cameron
The Lord has really led me along. Many of those, even just like this past year, giving me little tidbits here and there of some of those scriptural blind spots that we we typically have because we might not have put forth effort into them, into the past or we are now prepared because we have the prerequisites or some of the framework in order to finally have those revealed to us piece by piece as we are learning.

00:11:19:07 – 00:11:43:08
Cameron
So without further ado, let’s let’s go ahead and actually read Joseph Smith’s quote here that Anthony says, In light of the Tarkowski thesis, this is most interesting, says it is not the design of the Almighty to come upon the earth and crush it and grind it to powder. There will be wars and rumors of wars, signs in the heavens above and on the earth.

00:11:43:08 – 00:12:11:12
Cameron
Beneath the sun turned into darkness in the moon to blood earthquakes in diverse places, The seas heaving beyond their bounds Then will appear one grand sign of the son of man in heaven. But what will the world do? They will say it is a planet, a comet, etc. So when you What do you make of this quote? I know that you were saying some of the the background behind it and things.

00:12:11:12 – 00:12:21:24
Cameron
So like introduce us to what is here and how relevant or reliable is this quote?

00:12:21:24 – 00:12:55:11
Wendy
Oh, lots of signs about in the center of that, you know, with with the destructions that are going to come upon on all of us, really, we’re going to experience them. Excuse me, I’m right here. Just turned on and it’s kind of loud. So. Okay. All right. So and we hear we hear those a lot in the scriptures, right?

00:12:55:15 – 00:13:22:23
Wendy
We hear of those prophecies. But to have him, Joseph Smith, say, and in conjunction with what’s going on, then will appear one grand sign of the son of man in heavens. And that’s after a semicolon after talking about all these things, you know, looking at the the, the placement of there’s a semicolon then will appear one grand sign of the son of man in heaven.

00:13:23:00 – 00:13:45:17
Wendy
But what will the world do? They will say it is a planet, a comma, etc.. So I love how he’s pointing out that there is cosmological things happening in the skies that are causing these. Like you’re going to see, you’re going to have the experience happening and then you see, you see it. So you feel the effects before you actually see the costs.

00:13:46:01 – 00:14:12:03
Wendy
In a way. But it’s interesting because he doesn’t say that there will appear a planet or comet. He says one grand sign of the son of man in heaven. So he’s in the world will say it’s a planet or a comet. So he’s saying, this is what the world this is. This is how the world understand these things, but this is how the Lord sees things as not just as planets and comets.

00:14:12:03 – 00:14:36:13
Wendy
He sees that they’re under his control and that they’re there, that those things testify of the Son of God. You know what I mean? And we don’t see it like that. We see a planet. We see or a comet. But so that’s just one way I see us how the how Joseph Smith sees things differently than we do and how can we change our understanding as well.

00:14:37:00 – 00:14:58:20
Wendy
And we need to take that paradigm shift. And so it’s also interesting, at the very end we said they will say it is a planet, a comet, comma, et cetera. So I think we’re going to go into that about the interesting. I like how his thesis of how he kind of goes around and looks at those senses, but that’s kind of what I see as I look through them.

00:15:00:16 – 00:15:36:05
Cameron
Yeah, I love it. Um, so as he yeah, let me just quote for him, this is perhaps the most obvious aspect of this statement, is that the comet or planet, which is the cause, is directly associated with the signs of destruction, which are the effects. It’s interesting to note that the signs enumerated by the Prophet, such as the Sun turning dark, etc., are identical to the phenomena associated with the events of the exodus, which are bellicosity attributed to just such a planet like Comet.

00:15:36:05 – 00:16:01:17
Cameron
And the the world will refuse to recognize it as a sign. How could a comet or a planet elicit any special notice or comment unless it were doing the unexpected or the unusual? And so I don’t know. It just makes so much sense. Reading Anthony’s take on on this whole chapter here of what this might look like, because I don’t know.

00:16:01:17 – 00:16:30:04
Cameron
I’ve just never understood it or understood the framework behind it. But kind of going through what was a Chapter two or three with with the Exodus and and all of that and kind of playing that out and an end times scenario. It just makes a lot of sense. So this next section, he talks about kind of our solar system, a general rundown.

00:16:30:04 – 00:17:04:19
Cameron
I won’t go through all of it, but this one paragraph he talks about the difference between long period comets and short period comets, which I had no type of framework for, but long period comets are visible or observable over long periods of time, like it’s going to be thousands of years before we see it again versus short period comets, they have smaller orbits bringing them within sight, you know, once or twice each century.

00:17:05:06 – 00:17:32:23
Cameron
And so there’s a possibility that this grand sign could be a long term or a long period comet that may have passed by at an earlier millennia. But we don’t even know or have a framework of when it might return because we don’t have it measurable with our current instruments in in deep space kind of thing. So.

00:17:34:07 – 00:17:55:09
Wendy
You know, the way the way they can see comics is because as they’re coming closer to the sun, what they think it’s sublimation of that that’s an icy rock, right? That’s what we’ve always thought comets are is they’re they’re this icy body and they get close to the sun. And so you’re seeing that tell the comet is basically the ice coming off it.

00:17:55:09 – 00:18:20:05
Wendy
But it’s actually an electrical phenomenon that is it’s coming close to the sun. It’s it’s comet is it’s not sublimation. It’s there’s a there’s an electrical phenomenon that that you see. Right. And so when they’re long for comets in their way out in their orbit, you’re not going to see them until they get closer. And so they’re always watching the skies.

00:18:20:05 – 00:18:48:02
Wendy
Actually, they’re watching the skies for these things. So they can they are worried about it. Actually, they’re not worried about it. But they’ve done experiments. NASA’s done experiments of sending how to blow up something in space if it’s on the trajectory towards Earth. You know, they’re doing those kinds of experiments. So so yeah, they’re always watching because that’s definitely a possibility.

00:18:48:15 – 00:18:50:06
Wendy
MM Yeah.

00:18:50:16 – 00:19:22:11
Cameron
I love that. You know, weird tangent or whatever, but like when Space Force was created, I was like, really? Like, what the heck are we even doing? But realizing that multiple people, multiple groups and faith backgrounds or government agencies and stuff are actually looking at space as, as an active thing to be putting money and energy and effort into the study of it.

00:19:22:11 – 00:19:41:19
Cameron
You know, much like NASA and things. I know that many of of my circles of friends and things are think everything’s corrupt, which, you know, there’s definite corruption going on. But the fact that that they’re also investigating and worried about it is it’s kind of an interesting take on all of this.

00:19:43:07 – 00:19:44:23
Wendy
Yeah. Um.

00:19:45:21 – 00:19:56:00
Cameron
And then this paragraph was new to me. It says it is well known that the orbits of Uranus and Pluto intersect, which I, you know, I guess I didn’t do.

00:19:56:01 – 00:19:57:07
Wendy
I didn’t know that one of.

00:20:00:09 – 00:20:32:06
Cameron
And says that these two bodies could conceivably, conceivably perturb one another, upsetting the equilibrium that exists at present in the solar system. So just thinking about that. So we have like planet things that could be happening. We have comet things even long period, comets that might be pointing at it. But the he sums it up here. The point is the mechanism for such a planetary encounter is already in place in such a thing could occur according to natural law.

00:20:33:11 – 00:20:57:20
Cameron
And just studying, you know, the the way that God works, nothing is coincidence. He’s always putting patterns forth and he’s got everything in motion for the prophecies to play out and for the the gathering of Israel here upon the Earth, which is all part of of the deal right.

00:20:57:20 – 00:20:58:10
Wendy
Um.

00:20:59:23 – 00:21:26:11
Cameron
So this the section on important terminology, it says it is also interesting to note that according to the prophets statement, there will be some confusion as to whether the great sign is a comet or a planet. And, you know, these are very key terms to understand because I didn’t know these at all. This would seem to indicate that the body will be large like a planet, and yet look and behave like a comet.

00:21:26:11 – 00:21:48:06
Cameron
And so the characteristics of a comet is that it has a tail and in its elliptical orbit and a planet is is due to size and in its orbit as well. And so the statement by the Prophet Joseph Smith also gives a clear indication of the nature of the great sign for he used both the term comet and the term planet.

00:21:48:21 – 00:22:23:05
Cameron
And so, yeah, I don’t know that I ever knew exactly what a comet was. I just know that it’s something that streaks across the sky kind of thing, but that it has a tail and an elliptical orbit. There, much like we’ve seen when we were describing the exodus and volokhonsky these things, they’re. So what do you make of this part about Elijah here in this next section here where, you know, the Lord has declared that were Elijah not to come, the whole Earth would be utterly wasted is coming.

00:22:23:10 – 00:22:30:05
Cameron
How does this relate to Cosmism? And in this section that he’s talking and bringing about this subject.

00:22:32:03 – 00:22:58:02
Wendy
Is a question. So we take heart. We may take heart that Elijah has come and the Lord does not wish to destroy the earth, right? Utterly wasted, doesn’t it just means that What was the purpose? I think I think of that as one. It’s like he’s trying to save his children. That’s his purpose. Nevertheless, it is clear that the upheavals to attend to his coming will be devastating.

00:22:58:05 – 00:23:22:20
Wendy
And so I think we should take heart in that. Right. He’s not meaning to crash the earth. Let’s have it. Just dismiss that. You know, it’s not that he’s going to grind us to powder here. It’s going to be our paradigm is going to be changed. And so I said to the Prophet Joseph Smith in Liberty Jail, God has set his hand and zeal to change the times and seasons.

00:23:22:20 – 00:23:52:17
Wendy
Wow. Yeah. And we and it’s going to it’s going to be difficult. But wow, you know, Isaiah talks about that, too, like how the you know, the was it the King of Babylon or somebody else is going to seek to change the times and the seasons are new. And it’s interesting, like playing God and you know, who’s going to be trying to change the times and the seasons.

00:23:52:17 – 00:24:14:06
Wendy
I know Elon Musk wants to go well, I don’t know. He’s kind of crazy, but he’s like, We need to terraform Mars. We need to get to get people to Mars, so let’s go nuke the planet. You know, we got to get some of that ice up and that must be hard. Okay. Some really crazy. Some people think their God has to change the times of the season.

00:24:14:06 – 00:24:40:12
Wendy
Mars Definitely. But I’m just I don’t know. Sorry, that was a weird tangent, but the Lord is going to do these things. That’s what he’s going to do. And how. And then this is last. This is how we might ask, could such a change be brought about? Could the Earth’s rotation or declination be altered? Perhaps the length of its orbit can be changed, possibly because that’s happened in the past.

00:24:40:15 – 00:25:06:12
Wendy
And the key to prophecy is understanding that and and looking at the patterns, right. Why we have so many scriptures and so many visions of the prophets. A lot of scriptures are our visions of those things though. So yeah, those, those things are going to change and that’s going to be okay. So I don’t know if that was helpful.

00:25:07:00 – 00:25:30:06
Cameron
Yeah, I really like how we have so many instances of this in Scripture prophesying over the last days that that times and seasons are going to change and, and who’s really in charge, like you said, I mean, we have conspiring men and, and all of that, but it’s really God, God’s got everything under control and and he’s in charge of it.

00:25:30:22 – 00:25:51:15
Cameron
And that quote there is from DNC 121 God has set his hand and zeal to change the times and seasons. He’s done it in the past and he will do it at the end as well. Yeah, and so I think that when he brings up Elijah here, it, it pulls my my brain right back to Elijah in the Prince of Bel.

00:25:51:20 – 00:26:19:11
Cameron
What were they trying to do? They, they thought they knew how to pull down the fire from heaven and get everything there. But, but only God and his chosen representative will be able to actually do it based upon natural laws and working with God in priesthood authority. And so, yeah, it’s just so interesting how much Elijah pops up as a pattern for for the end times.

00:26:20:03 – 00:26:43:24
Cameron
I mean, in the Old Testament this year was just eye opening and I hadn’t had a cosmism cosmological type of perspective when I went through it yet. But I know I can wait for four more years to go through it again. I’m going to go have to read all of his stories with that specific thing in mind. But anyway, it’s just interesting how he keeps popping up as one of the great types of the last days.

00:26:45:13 – 00:27:08:23
Wendy
And and on an on a level on a personal level, you know, you think of the symbolism of that and Elijah is has come to turn the hearts of the children to the fathers and hearts of the fathers to the children. Right. With Earth. You know, could be curse. But in the end, the I think is a footnote there.

00:27:10:05 – 00:27:27:11
Wendy
Doesn’t the prophet Joseph Smith ad somewhere and maybe it’s in the DNC that it’s that that the covenant made to them but the promises made to the fathers as the promises made to the fathers will be remembered by the children and the children to the too. So this the promise of the covenant. The covenant is going to be reestablish.

00:27:27:11 – 00:27:53:24
Wendy
The covenant is going to be remembered. And so what is what is the sign? What is the symbol of covenant? It’s a pillar, a pillar of fire that Elijah called down from heaven to to consume the sacrifice. And there was a circle of water around that as well. I mean, it wasn’t just to put the priests about the shame or to prove a point.

00:27:54:07 – 00:28:25:12
Wendy
There is symbolism in that. Yeah, a circle around an altar that is that there is, there are. And then the pillar fire coming down from heaven to to make a covenant with those here on the earth is the Lord in his heavens descending to us and asking us to ascend to, to to be different than this world, to think differently than this world.

00:28:25:12 – 00:28:45:13
Wendy
We’re going to be a peculiar people and to have a peculiar understanding. And and can we feel that in our hearts? Do does he own our hearts, you know, or are we one with him in mind and and thought and haven’t, I think, to its glory, to its glory. I mean, these things are glorious. Not just glorious, though.

00:28:45:13 – 00:29:07:17
Wendy
They’re amazing, but it’s his glory. It’s coming down, He’s descending to us. And anyway, so I just love the level of that to thinking about Elijah and the Pillar, Fire and Covenants and being filled and temples to our loved ones and to desire. So. MM Yeah, I think that’s a.

00:29:07:17 – 00:29:34:01
Cameron
Love that in a temple training meeting that we had is as temple workers, our president gave the most amazing talk that was really dissecting out the scriptures and the patterns behind the keys of Elijah. And what does it mean to turn the, the hearts of the fathers to the children and the children to the fathers and the promises of the fathers and all of that.

00:29:34:11 – 00:30:05:10
Cameron
And he brought out some fantastic points that we often kind of put it in a box and either don’t worry about it or misinterpret it and don’t pull the full ramifications of it. But how much all of our forefathers, Abraham, Father Enoch, like they have made covenants to come forth again during the last days to help us in all of the things that are going to happen prior to the second coming.

00:30:05:22 – 00:30:26:04
Cameron
You know, like the city of Enoch, they were able to, to be translated to be received up into heaven for one specific purpose, which was to help at the end times because they seen exactly what we were going to be going through. And they covenanted with the Lord, Let us help. We need to be there. We need to help them.

00:30:26:04 – 00:31:02:15
Cameron
And so the, you know, in light of electrical universe and the the tie that well, let’s see, let the symbolism of it being pulled out of the earth and having an empirical cord of in the symbolism, they’re like they still have ties to the earth and being drawn back in order to to help us through all of the the cataclysms and and the electrical phenomena that that will be happening in the end time, I think is very interesting.

00:31:02:15 – 00:31:18:04
Cameron
But without that kind of a framework or paradigm shift, you know, we get some of the symbolism, but not all of it. And so anyway, I just think that there’s so much with the case of Elijah that we have yet to fully unlock.

00:31:19:17 – 00:31:39:09
Wendy
Oh, yeah, so true. An umbilical cord to to to Celeste difference. I mean, there’s a pillar of fire right there from, from a what? Somebody in a higher level to lower. I mean there’s, there’s covenant connection there. They’re connected to us. They’ve made a covenant, right? Yeah. So I love that.

00:31:40:00 – 00:31:57:13
Cameron
And we actually have to turn our hearts to them in order for those promises to to be in full effect and to to actually channel the powers of of God through the covenants in the ordinances thereof. The power of godliness is manifest.

00:31:57:19 – 00:32:15:11
Wendy
Oh, yeah. Can we pray him here? Don’t need to be praying for them. Exactly. Do we want them to come back? I mean, do we want Jesus to come back? I really think Fred had a vision or she told me about. I can’t remember it was a dream or vision, but she’s like, We need to pray for Jesus time.

00:32:15:11 – 00:32:28:13
Wendy
We me to just start writing in about six years ago. She’s like, We need to pray that he’ll come, not be like is going to be the last days. You know you have to want yesterdays and not to come back. We need to pray Jesus here. So I love that.

00:32:29:01 – 00:32:33:01
Cameron
And so not always be pulling.

00:32:33:01 – 00:32:34:06
Wendy
Don’t click on the temple.

00:32:34:06 – 00:32:58:02
Cameron
References into it and everything. But like just yesterday I was on one of my breaks in the temple going, okay, what do I need to study? And my brain was kind of going back to the lectures on Faith Book Club that went inside and went through and section 88 and I was just going through it trying to to pull this kind of stuff out of it.

00:32:58:08 – 00:33:30:04
Cameron
I mean, because there’s a lot of obvious things, right? Obvious sections, which I think we’ll talk about here at the end. But there is so many of those, what Anthony called scriptural blindspots in section 88 that we just kind of gloss over because it seems to kind of be bouncing around from tangent to tangent throughout that section. But if we weave the cosmological thread through the whole thing in reference to the School of the prophets, what were they wanting?

00:33:30:15 – 00:33:56:06
Cameron
They were asking the Lord specifically for knowledge about Zion, and what did He give them? He gave them this and this and this and all of these things to prepare them for the School of the Prophets saying In the School of the prophets, you will learn all of this. What we’re studying here now and and this whole paradigm shift and oh my gosh, like section 88 was blowin my mind yesterday.

00:33:56:24 – 00:33:58:01
Wendy
Oh, I’m sorry.

00:33:58:01 – 00:34:14:03
Cameron
So many notes and things to, to go down and stuff, but yeah, it’s amazing how much we have in our scriptures. It’s not in some esoteric source or apocryphal writing. It’s just, just study the doctrine covenants with this paradigm and and you’ll be richly blessed.

00:34:15:03 – 00:34:27:06
Wendy
Yes. The fact that Joseph Smith taught, taught them in the school, the prophets, these things, I truly believe that it’s there if you have to see. Mm. Yeah. Oh good.

00:34:27:06 – 00:34:55:17
Cameron
And it turns from a blind spot into a oh this is, it just kind of clarifies and it’s just amazing. So the next section here talks about the major changes coming. So according to Volokhonsky, many ancient sources recorded. So this is, you know, Exodus time and surrounding all of the different ages that that changed, but that the seasons had been changed.

00:34:56:07 – 00:35:21:03
Cameron
This is from the papyrus. And in a astronomy, the winter is come as summer, the months are reversed and the hours are disordered and from the texts of Taoism, this source declared that the breath of heaven is out of harmony. The Four Seasons do not observe their proper times from an ancient texts in Mexico. The order of the seasons was altered at that epoch.

00:35:22:16 – 00:35:53:24
Cameron
We have many different sources here. The Yeah. Let me read this whole paragraph here. This is quoted from Worlds in Collision from Volokhonsky, but it’s it’s referencing the papyrus and star. See, the fourth says With the fall of the Egyptian Middle Kingdom and the exodus, one of the great world ages came to its end. The four corners of the world were displaced and neither the orbit nor the poles, nor probably the direction of rotation remained the same.

00:35:54:17 – 00:36:23:09
Cameron
The calendar had to be adjusted anew. The astronomical values of the year in the day could not be the same as before and after an upheaval in which, as quoted by the papyrus, and especially the fourth says the months were reversed and the hours distorted. And so when Joseph Smith is now talking about an alteration in the Times and seasons, it makes it all the more relevant knowing that God has done it in the past and he can do it in the future kind of thing.

00:36:23:09 – 00:36:36:12
Cameron
And so I don’t know, it just so much sense now with that framework of because we’re just kind of raised with the gradualist perspective of the year. Everything has existed for thousands and millions and billions of years.

00:36:37:01 – 00:36:38:01
Wendy
Yes, but.

00:36:38:15 – 00:36:52:10
Cameron
We have marked differences and we have record of them, not just in our Christian or Judaic Christian view, but all cultures of the Earth have different account uses of this.

00:36:53:16 – 00:37:18:18
Wendy
You know, I think these are some of the plain and precious things that were removed. Yeah, I mean, it’s the people in the past, there’s probably more memory that they had with these things, but we’ve gone through such an apostasy of truth and things being taken out. We have no clue what’s going on. And yeah, it’s it’s glad.

00:37:18:18 – 00:37:25:02
Wendy
I’m glad we still have so many other records, you know, that we can we can turn to and see. Yeah.

00:37:25:14 – 00:37:48:09
Cameron
So like two different kind of tangents off of that where if you’re really wanting to dive into some of these other cultures and what they said about these epochs changing, etc.. Volokhonsky is book The World’s In Collision is probably one of your best resources, at least a primer and you can look at all of its footnotes and go to the original sources on everything.

00:37:48:15 – 00:38:16:21
Cameron
But that one goes through all of these different papyrus and different things all over the world taking a look at that, but looking just at our own scriptures, you know, approaching this from LDS perspective here of saints, that just look at the Hebrew Bible. What is one of the first things that happens coming out of the Exodus? And and if the world had just went through a major upheaval times and seasons have changed.

00:38:17:14 – 00:38:44:00
Cameron
God issues them a new calendar with new feasts and festivals to observe and says, Hey, I’m going to do this on the the first day of the first month and I’m going to do this on this day and this and stuff. And you will observe these things as your new calendar. You know, many people have tried to to miss mesh and merge the ethnic calendar and the Jewish calendar and our modern calendars all together.

00:38:44:04 – 00:39:27:12
Cameron
And nothing meshes because it’s a different thing. Like we measure time based upon the sun and the moon. And if everything has changed, even rotations or different elliptical orbits, etc., then we can’t measure time in the same way and it just makes so much sense when we talk about that God is is kind of beyond time because he doesn’t observe, let’s see, not observe, but he has a different perspective of time than we do because we’re sitting here on this earth with this sun and this moon with this distance and and orbits and stuff like it.

00:39:27:12 – 00:39:49:00
Cameron
And it changes on from time to time, from millennia to millennia. And that God is so much in charge of all of it. So anyway, I don’t know where those two rounds came from, but I just find it so interesting that we have sources we have documentation that it has changed and that it will change again and we have to be prepared for that.

00:39:50:01 – 00:40:16:19
Wendy
Yes, the evidence is out there. It’s just you have friends that, you know, a conspiracy theory. This is a big one. It’s a lot of things have been pushed under the rug. And maybe it’s maybe it’s just been people that are like just shaming other people. Like, what do you know that you’re talking about? I mean, it happens all the time for there to be any big paradigm shift, even in science.

00:40:16:19 – 00:40:36:21
Wendy
It’s got to have a lot a lot of backing to to change people’s minds, which is really sad. But then anyway, yeah, there’s there’s so much truth out there. We just have to be willing to, to look away from the mainstream to, to and find enough sources. Right. To to corroborate it all. And I think we that’s that.

00:40:36:21 – 00:40:46:03
Wendy
And the first two, I think podcasts, if anybody want to go back and listen first, so much evidence summit you can you can find it out the Lord will help you.

00:40:46:20 – 00:41:08:11
Cameron
You know, for sure. Um, so kind of emphasizing that point here in this next section, it talks about the end of peace. And so it says Furthermore, in the first section of the doctrine in Covenants, the Lord declares, and this is verse 35, that the power is not yet, but is now at hand when peace shall be taken from the earth.

00:41:09:08 – 00:41:35:10
Cameron
And so I really like Anthony’s commentary here. It says This revelation was received 1831. Of course, the Civil War was as yet future, as were two world wars, but innumerable other wars, but incessant wars had plagued the Earth for centuries. It almost seems unreasonable for the Lord in 1831 to speak of taking peace from the Earth, when there would have been no peace to speak of for centuries.

00:41:36:09 – 00:42:03:11
Cameron
War would be nothing new. So even if the or even the terrible destruction of modern warfare, what then was he speaking of? It is very likely that he was referring to the cataclysms associated with the return of the Savior. This planet and its inhabitants have enjoyed a prolonged period of peaceful continuance wherein nothing has disrupted the day to day or day in, day out rotation of the planet for centuries.

00:42:03:11 – 00:42:36:07
Cameron
The prophesied destruction would bring an end to the Earth’s quiet existence. And that just like resonated so much with me is like, yeah, I mean, even just like my personal generation, like I don’t remember World War Two or anything, but like we have had like this relatively peaceful era. I mean, I know that there’s there’s distant wars and everything, but like, I’m very kind of sheltered from the impacting effects of, of war.

00:42:36:21 – 00:43:12:03
Cameron
And so I can kind of understand that whole paradigm of that this since Christ has his immortal ministry, death and resurrection, since that kind of cataclysm, we’ve had a relatively peaceful era of cosmological activity. But that that peace which shall be taken from the earth and there’s going to be a lot of men’s hearts failing them in the days because there’s going to be so much that we just don’t understand or have a framework for due to this long period of peace.

00:43:12:03 – 00:43:31:23
Cameron
And so I take a lot of comfort in the prophecy and promise that if you are prepared, you shall not fear. Like if we have to live off manna again, like we talked about in in the exodus not falling from the sky, but the Lord will take care of us and there’s going to be a lot of things that are kind of scary.

00:43:31:23 – 00:43:37:17
Cameron
But we got this one side so true.

00:43:39:04 – 00:44:12:12
Wendy
The Lord said, Peace, I live with you. My peace I given to you not as the world giveth. If I am to you, Let not your heart be troubled. Never let it be afraid If we give him our heart. If he’s in our heart of hell Leland Tanner over at his blog. If we can link to his third his third thesis there about have how your if when your heart is fully converted and and basically tuned in to the Lord as like your own personal cosmology, are you in alignment with him?

00:44:12:12 – 00:44:40:05
Wendy
Right. You know what I mean as is I like how you also talked about how the heart is this kind of like the stone of the body, too. So like, do you hear him? Do you really hear him here and here? But can you find peace with him? And in this situation, it takes and practice and the but but but he he is the author of Peace that he will he will come to us.

00:44:40:05 – 00:44:50:12
Wendy
And sometimes that’s the really the the time that I felt him the most was in those those really hard times. So he’ll be with us. Yeah. Great.

00:44:51:04 – 00:45:16:00
Cameron
It’s a very hopeful sometimes. Yeah. If we’re not vigilant, sometimes we can kind of be taken back with, with fear, with some of these prophecies and things that are going to come. But having that peace with us and faith knowing that with the Lord’s help, we can endure all things and be prepared for it, even if it’s more of an offensive approach rather than a defensive approach, Right?

00:45:17:00 – 00:45:19:17
Wendy
Yeah.

00:45:19:17 – 00:45:56:20
Cameron
So continuing on with with modern Revelation, here’s a couple of quotes. This one is from DNC 88 and we’ll all tackle one in DNC 49 here in a second. But that yeah, let me just read the whole thing. So this is verses 87 through 91 and also 93 and Anthony quotes all of these here. It says for not many days hence the earth shall tremble and real to and for all is a drunken man and the sun shall hide his face and shall refuse to give light and the moon shall be bathed in blood and the stars shall become exceedingly angry and shall cast themselves down as a fig has fallen as a fig that

00:45:56:20 – 00:46:37:17
Cameron
fallen from a fig tree. And after your testimony cometh wrath and indignation upon the people. For after your testimony come with the testimony of earthquakes that so cause groaning in the midst of her and men shall fall upon the ground and should not be able to stand and also come of the testimony of the voice of thunder and the voice of thunder and the voice of tempest, the voice of waves and seas heaving themselves beyond their bounds and all things shall be in commotion and surely men’s hearts shall fill them for fear shall come upon all people, and immediately there shall appear a great sign in heaven and all people shall see it together.

00:46:38:10 – 00:47:02:02
Cameron
So referencing that did create that I was talking about that I was connected with. Like that’s the obvious one. That’s the very powerful cosmic view there in that section. But at the context in which it was given and all of the surrounding verses, it’s so impactful, taking a toll deep. You know, someday we should probably do that. Just do a deep dive on Dante 88.

00:47:02:02 – 00:47:26:04
Wendy
But yeah, it’s interesting because last week I was I was reading that maybe I should read it this week, but I just fell to read it last week and I remember that it was a think I talked about last time to have a so good and in the context of what it says in the next chapter about how Joseph Smith indicated that that great sign would be what people would call a comet, a planet.

00:47:26:04 – 00:47:28:05
Wendy
So yeah, good.

00:47:28:09 – 00:47:53:07
Cameron
The love of urn. And then this one from Dancy 49 says wherefore be not deceived, but continue in steadfastness, looking forth for the heavens to be shaken and the earth to tremble and real to and fro is a drunken man like I want to do a word study on drunken man in D.C. because I mean, it seems like Joseph Smith is always talking about the earth reeling like a drunken man.

00:47:53:07 – 00:48:05:01
Cameron
Right. And for the values to be exalted and for the mountains to be made low and for the rough places to become smooth. And all this when the earth or when the angel shall sound his trumpet.

00:48:05:10 – 00:48:06:21
Wendy
I love that.

00:48:07:13 – 00:48:07:22
Cameron
Yeah.

00:48:08:11 – 00:48:27:04
Wendy
So, I mean, look at the look at the beginning of that. I mean, I don’t know if this is a good case study. I’m like Venus, but continue steadfastness, looking for for the heavens to be shaken and looking for that sound of that trumpet from that from an angel. Right. Sound as trumpet. And what will those things cause?

00:48:27:04 – 00:48:32:04
Wendy
All those things between it, right?

00:48:32:04 – 00:48:37:21
Cameron
So this is totally random thing. Do you have anything else like on that? I just had like, this. Like.

00:48:38:07 – 00:48:57:03
Wendy
No, it’s fine. I’m keep thinking about that train of thought, but it’s just. It’s just really close. It. It’s the heavens that are shaking that are causing these things, too. I mean, he starts right out, you know? But look for those things. Listen for that trumpet. Look at the stuff like we talk about the sound. Right. There’s going to be sound associated with these things, too.

00:48:58:08 – 00:49:12:04
Wendy
And that when we see it, we will know it for what it is and that we won’t be able to see it because there’s got to be all of those things right. Hey, can be the glory of God connected to it. All right. So now you’ve got to share what you’re going to see.

00:49:12:16 – 00:49:44:06
Cameron
Except okay. So I think I somewhat kind of mentioned this in an earlier podcast, but it didn’t the full thing didn’t dawn on me until just barely. But when we were talking about temples and the aerial photos of the temples. Right. And Twin Falls is a very basic Scandinavian design temple. Like it doesn’t have all of the the frou frou flowers and beautiful things that many of the other temples have.

00:49:44:06 – 00:49:59:01
Cameron
And one day, quite a few years ago, I was looking at the aerial view and I’m like, This is kind of interesting, but I didn’t get it until now. I just thought it was like a cool kind of like trumpet motif or whatever in the grounds. But yeah, let me share this with you.

00:49:59:15 – 00:50:00:14
Wendy
So this is.

00:50:00:21 – 00:50:24:04
Cameron
The Twin Falls Temple. Sorry, Twin Falls Temple pointing eastward. And so they’ve changed a little bit of this, but anyway, you have like this this grand circle here. But look at the fence pattern. The fence is an undulating wave like pattern issuing from me.

00:50:24:13 – 00:50:24:21
Wendy
And I.

00:50:25:23 – 00:50:46:15
Cameron
I always just took it as, Oh, this is the temple that sends out lots of, you know, Idaho farm boy missionaries to to proclaim the gospel and kind of sound forth like a trumpet. But now I’m like, no, I mean, if you take this and rotate it 90 degrees, I mean, we’re looking at polar configuration. We’re looking at lots of different imagery, right?

00:50:47:00 – 00:50:57:15
Wendy
Oh, there’s a plasma column between two celestial bodies. Yeah, Yeah, exactly. And there’s a plasma connect. Yeah. And vibration. It’s not just plasma, but there’s sound. Yeah.

00:50:58:15 – 00:51:32:16
Cameron
Exactly. And originally we did not have a water feature at our temple. You know, most temples have some sort of fountain or whatever, but they did put that one in just a I think it was two years ago. They inserted this kind of garden with a water feature here. And anyway, it just how it all plays into the, the plasma and I mean just everything and that undulating fence because most temples just have a straight fence point A to point B kind of thing.

00:51:32:16 – 00:51:35:18
Cameron
But this one, I mean, they took great care to make it.

00:51:36:24 – 00:51:43:05
Wendy
Yeah, that’s easy, right? Yeah. What’s the point of it? There must be a point.

00:51:43:05 – 00:51:56:16
Cameron
Yeah. And, and even the base here that, that goes out to the road and everything, like. Oh my word. Yeah. I didn’t quite get it until you were just talking there and I’m like I don’t it just part of my head of my, oh my gosh, I got to go feel that up again.

00:51:57:16 – 00:52:25:14
Wendy
That, that, that is revelation when the spirit makes a connection for you’re like yes. And sometimes I’m like, Are we remembering things? I mean, did we I think I think I think we were were schooled on these things. And it’s not just we’re learning it. I think we’re remembering that’s how it feels to me. Oh, that’s awesome. I sometimes I wish we could just do a study on, like, aerial view of temples or, like, symbolism and temples or pictures of inside because it’s so cool.

00:52:25:14 – 00:52:59:01
Wendy
Every every temple’s a little bit different. But the fountain feature, that’s really important because there is the the water is often when in scripture and it talks about water, it’s referring to that connection that that it flows. You know, plasma is is the force that it’s been designated as a fourth state of matter. Right. The thing is is it doesn’t contain atoms, it’s just electrical charge or ions.

00:52:59:01 – 00:53:38:04
Wendy
That’s but it’s it can it can flow because of that. And it’s it’s not it doesn’t behave like things on this earth like in matters state that we think this is natural and normal out in the universe there it’s mostly plasma And so any just it’s interesting, but it’s even inside of us, there’s more space than there is actionable matter, you know, and and why things flow that they still don’t understand in our bodies why there’s this electrical, you know, there’s definitely electrical things going on, things passing through membranes, you know, because of electrical charge.

00:53:38:05 – 00:53:56:13
Wendy
But to try and understand it in a chemical way, you know why these things are. But there’s there’s plasma flowing in us. That’s why we’re all connected to the Lord. You know, there’s it’s not just out there. It’s inner. It’s an inner interstate, too. So it’s we’re connected with the Lord through our plasma, you know what I mean?

00:53:56:13 – 00:54:29:21
Wendy
Like, not I don’t know. It’s just there’s there’s so much symbolism to to this that I wish we could we could talk about it more. Could you link the little video that a friend sent me and it it goes through goes through what? I was just kind of sharing about plasma and also and in a way that I think a lot of the viewers might like and reference is another book that if you want a little bit more deep study, he’s got another book, he’s got a couple of different books.

00:54:29:21 – 00:55:19:01
Wendy
But he basically goes through his book and he talks about about it to a lady that’s really known for her astrological studies and having people on about astrology, which I’m not super into, but I think there’s probably something to it. It just hasn’t been an interest of mine. I like knowing how of the science and the spiritual side of things is really so maybe that would be interesting to some listeners and I just keep having something come into my mind If we talk about it briefly with the circles and, and talk about about, you know, circle representing the spiritual and a lot of Times Square is is representing like the body the physical right and

00:55:19:14 – 00:55:51:15
Wendy
and wanting to were anyway there’s that that conjunction of it so that’s important one one day a couple of weeks ago I woke up and I was I was thinking about our upcoming podcast it tell me something if I have to share this. But I was I was contemplating sound and why, you know, you know, of course we don’t we’re not going to hear it as as well in space because there’s not a lot of matter because it happens, because it’s vibrating through something.

00:55:51:16 – 00:56:31:00
Wendy
Right. And and then it clicked with me, Well, I have a body and therefore work can be done in my body that that that there’s important work that has to be done, that that that can only happen here on the Earth because of that matter. And so with the sound happening, you know what I mean? I don’t know how to describe it because it was it was a spiritual impression, but it’s like the Lord bringing knowledge is the glory of God coming more and more on this earth and more, more upon us and changing our bodies and changing the earth.

00:56:31:09 – 00:56:52:02
Wendy
And as that is literally His word, the Lord is changing us. So but it’s like a it has to happen. And in our bodies. So anyway, and on the earth. So I know that’s the way out. I didn’t think I was going to be talking about that because I don’t have it articulated. It was just a thought and feeling like how important that is.

00:56:52:12 – 00:56:56:16
Wendy
So I don’t know right? Yeah, there’s.

00:56:56:16 – 00:57:05:12
Cameron
Lots of different things that come out of nowhere and you’re just like, Huh, Wow. That it’s a it’s a download, but like.

00:57:06:03 – 00:57:06:12
Wendy
Something.

00:57:07:06 – 00:57:09:09
Cameron
Like you of it is the hardest part.

00:57:09:19 – 00:57:10:14
Wendy
Of it is.

00:57:11:06 – 00:57:48:15
Cameron
I love it though I’m super excited to to revisit that in my studies. I think so Anthony kind of finalizes his thing here, talking about the similarities of of the patterns and and so not withstanding its clarity and simplicity, the doctrine and covenants and other modern revelation contain the same metaphors used by the prophets of old and I just such a great way to sum it up that God works in patterns and and that’s how we know the fruits of of the prophets.

00:57:48:22 – 00:58:16:13
Cameron
And if they are working by divine patterns, then then we can know that they are sent from God. And I know these things, right? Looking at the the words of President Nelson, our book club, having went through that and really studied in depth, all of his his words was so profound. I wish I had a cosmological perspective before we did that, but I never hurts to go back and do it again.

00:58:17:04 – 00:58:41:16
Cameron
But looking that he is fulfilling all of the divine patterns of the past and looking at temple architecture, you know, the conference center roof, you know, we’ll get into that eventually when we are studying Anthony’s things, but that the patterns are consistent and and they’re always there. It’s just if we have eyes to see and ears to hear some of these things.

00:58:41:16 – 00:58:56:14
Cameron
Yeah, I just love it. So one thing that that you mentioned that you want to talk about is is the the final audible drawing and and all of that. Would you like to kind of introduce that in line with the importance of Joseph Smith and his understanding of cosmology?

00:58:57:22 – 00:59:32:14
Wendy
Sure. So I’ve found this it’s taken from the book The Lost Tribes by R, Clayton Barr, ab0uh. Pages 51 to 55. And it’s more of a. Well, I’ll just read it. But anyway, just as a little background to it, the title of it is The Location of the Lost Tribes, as told by fellow Dibble, who was the bodyguard to the prophet Joseph Smith.

00:59:32:14 – 01:00:07:15
Wendy
So there was a lot of early saints that thought and I don’t know, Joseph Smith taught. And I got to keep in mind that a lot of early saints there was there’s cosmological things they talked about. So it says the narrow neck proposition, a sub theory associated with the unknown planet theory, but somewhat removed from its basic premise that the first ten tribes are now supposedly on, quote, a portion of the earth that has been, quote, separated, detach or taken away from our globe and placed on some other planet or a sphere or on another near another star.

01:00:07:15 – 01:00:29:07
Wendy
Somewhere in the universe is the called the narrow neck proposition. Now, this isn’t something that I, I don’t know how you feel, but this is just what it says in here. But I think it’s interesting to note that they they that there’s other theories out there. I don’t know if you’ve heard of some of these, but that narrow neck of land is important to those two spheres.

01:00:29:07 – 01:00:48:13
Wendy
You know, think of that plasma column that we’re talking about. It’s it’s attached to the earth by narrow neck, a land or two spheres which vary in size. Oh, good. You found something because I don’t have an image. One which is connected to the earth north of the North Pole, and the other which is connected to our globe south of the South Pole.

01:00:48:13 – 01:01:20:24
Wendy
So if somebody is a if you’re looking at this on the video, you can see it. But if you’re not, you can go and just look up five double drawing. Joseph Smith And this would come up this proposition is based on a on a drawing which the prophet Joseph Smith supposedly drew about the year 1842 and which was later secured and preserved by Silo Depot of Springville, Utah, later made a copy of the drawing in 1884, which he then gave to Matthew Dalton, which this is the drawing that he gave to them.

01:01:20:24 – 01:01:51:03
Wendy
It’s not the original. It must still be in the possession of the family, I’m not sure, but so Dalton published it in 1906 and Dalton states that Dibble informed him the prophet said that that in the drawing sphere A represented the earth and that the ten tribes were in the sphere. B the sphere marked B He did not state the purpose for C, but others have thought this location of the City of Enoch anyway.

01:01:51:12 – 01:02:16:20
Wendy
So this is all suppositions and you know things when they get passed down to the telephone can change, right? We all know that name, but the drawing that was given to him, this this was a copy of it that Silo had in his possession that he claimed that the prophet Joseph Smith gave to him. Joseph Smith drew the original drawing a short time before his death, or in 1842, in the presence of several witnesses.

01:02:17:03 – 01:02:38:09
Wendy
Philo Dibble of Springville, Utah, was one of these witnesses and secured the drawing. In the month of May of the year 1884. He made a copy thereof for me, like we just talked about at the time the original drawing was made, the Brethren were discussing the disappearance of the ten tribes and wondering where they were upon which the prophet made the drawing and stated that the ten tribes were located on the sphere marked be.

01:02:39:11 – 01:02:54:19
Wendy
Some may or even do doubt the truth of the diagram and even the statement of how the diagram was obtained. Yet it is nevertheless true. It was drawn in the presence of William, Sarah Beecher and myself in the year 1884 by fellow devil.

01:02:57:05 – 01:03:20:07
Wendy
Anyway, it goes on to talk about his son and anyway that they were notarized and in public, that it was was the drawing so that that it was a copy of that exact drawing. So anyway so you just take it for what it is. It is not, you know, it’s, it’s something that’s come down through a family line.

01:03:20:07 – 01:03:41:13
Wendy
And but I think it’s really interesting because as the as it shows that there’s there’s three spheres that have a connecting plasma column between each of them. And I don’t know what exactly that means. Is that what it’s going to look like in the end? Or could be is it a possibility that it might look like that and in the future?

01:03:41:14 – 01:03:53:00
Wendy
I don’t know or what each sphere means? I don’t know. But it’s really interesting because the tilt the tilt of that is that tilt of the earth. I think what I don’t know if that’s okay.

01:03:53:00 – 01:03:55:23
Cameron
I’m 22 and a half degree that it lists there.

01:03:56:00 – 01:04:18:06
Wendy
It’s close to that. Yeah, to the tilt of the earth. So anyway, just for your information, and maybe later we can talk about some other statements that the prophets have made about the cosmological statements. I think there’s another chapter coming up after we talk about revelations. So maybe go into it there.

01:04:18:15 – 01:04:59:10
Cameron
MM Yeah, I love it. The main takeaway for me tonight on, on that specific thing was that they that, that came in answer to a question all of those elders were wondering about a topic and and God comes to us like you said in the very beginning of the podcast that unless we’re asking unless we’re seeking his mysteries and his things, that we’re not necessarily going to get answers, like he’s not just going to force himself upon us and say, okay, here’s all the diagrams of the universe and this is how you create worlds or what’s going to happen prior to the second coming.

01:04:59:10 – 01:05:23:09
Cameron
But when we start asking specific questions and having answers, the Lord is so willing to come and reveal pieces until we’re ready for the whole. And so just ask questions all the time, just constantly be in prayer, asking God questions as they come up. The Spirit will lead you and guide you in what questions you should ask. And and how you might get for their light knowledge.

01:05:23:09 – 01:05:35:14
Cameron
I think that’s one of the biggest takeaways for me is never be scared to ask questions because he’s so loving and willing to lead us wherever. Yes, we’re out.

01:05:36:06 – 01:06:02:23
Wendy
And to ask for witnesses. Several witnesses. I often ask, Can I have another one? Can I see this somewhere else? Can I see it in a way that that makes sense to me? And and you will. You’ll you’ll see it in different places and that that it’s not that our relationship with with each other and with the Lord and with other planets isn’t some far distant like, yeah, we’re kind of connected by gravity.

01:06:03:06 – 01:06:30:01
Wendy
There is definitely something there that’s more based on, on our, our relationship with the Lord and our connection to each other than some weak force. And it can change because based on our and on what the Lord wants to do. So we got to break out of that paradigm that there can’t be stepped planets in some sort of like that.

01:06:30:01 – 01:06:50:03
Wendy
And that was a really big mind blower for me. Like, okay, I got to get over that. You know, that very ancient theory that now I’m like, That’s so stupid. Why did I ever believe that? So now it’s much more like, okay, this is this is I can see it all over in Scripture. I see it all over in the temple.

01:06:50:10 – 01:07:11:04
Wendy
I see it in my relationship with the Lord. It’s like I see how my relation ships with my family or anybody I walk into the room with like I’m connected to them in a way that’s that’s not based on any kind of gravitational principle. It’s much more of a plasma principle. So yeah, I love that.

01:07:11:04 – 01:07:45:09
Cameron
So any other kind of final things before we wrap up, just kind of pointing forward to to next time, we will just take a couple of weeks off as we go through the holidays and we’ll pick back up again the first part of January. But next time we will be looking at Chapter seven. So again, we highly encourage people to read along with us, read chapter seven before you listen to the next podcast so that you can see all of the different defining terms and and perspectives that Anthony is presenting there.

01:07:45:18 – 01:08:07:17
Cameron
And our next podcast will just be a discussion of the Book of Revelation and, and some of the interesting cosmological witnesses there that we can pull out and apply for the end times. It’s such a masterful work, right? Isaiah and Revelation are kind of my two loves at the moment and.

01:08:07:23 – 01:08:22:09
Wendy
There’s plain books. They’ve been said that they’re the most plain, but well, how is that? Must we see it with eyes that, that have prophetic understanding, right? So exciting.

01:08:22:19 – 01:08:35:17
Cameron
Yeah, I love it. There’s so much to be had and prepared for there. So anyway, thanks again for, for listening and putting up with all of our tangents that we go down.

01:08:36:11 – 01:08:37:02
Wendy
With this as well.

01:08:37:14 – 01:09:05:17
Cameron
And again, please continue to ask us questions or different things that you would like us to cover or answer in these podcasts there. On learning I incom slash cosmism there’s a form at the bottom of the page where you can provide us feedback, let us know how we’re doing or how we can improve and better introduce this paradigm shift to you and help you along your journey and and so that we can learn from you as well.

01:09:05:18 – 01:09:30:03
Cameron
If you have any corrections for us and tell us straight up how we might learn and grow together. So yeah, we are excited for this holiday season. We hope all of you spend a lot of good quality time with your family and friends and loved ones. And and as we light the world in very real and tangible ways.

01:09:30:03 – 01:09:31:06
Wendy
Yeah, yeah.

01:09:32:14 – 01:09:42:15
Cameron
Seeing that an even greater cosmological perspective, these anyway so yeah I will help.